INTERNET ENGINEERING STEERING GROUP (IESG)
Summarized Agenda for the March 30, 2006 IESG Teleconference

Narrative scribe: Spencer Dawkins <spencer@mcsr-labs.org>

1. Administrivia
                                                                               
  1.1 Roll Call

Bill is recovering from being moved down the roll call order (apparently NOMCOM selected new ADs based on last-name alphabetical order).

  1.2 Bash the Agenda

Working group charter discussion was moved to the beginning of the call.

Ross reminded people to make reservations for the retreat in May.

  1.3 Approval of the Minutes

Spencer has sent narrative minutes for the last two meeting. Comments/revisions should happen in the next week.

  1.4 Review of Action Items

Bert has sent the "example phone numbers" e-mail. This was the only action item on the list.

  1.5 Review of Projects
      http://www.unreason.com/jfp/iesg-projects

Wiki is first 2006 project.

Brian asked Jon to send a note about the projects that will need responsible ADs/

2. Protocol Actions
Reviews should focus on these questions: "Is this document a
reasonable basis on which to build the salient part of the Internet
infrastructure? If not, what changes would make it so?"


2.1 WG Submissions
2.1.1 New Item
  o draft-ietf-sasl-plain-08.txt
    The Plain SASL Mechanism (Proposed Standard) - 1 of 2
    Token: Sam Hartman

Ross entered NO-OBJ for this draft.

Mark's DISCUSS is pretty simple - introduction talks about "unencrypted" versus "unsecured". Sam believes that we have consensus that encryption is required - the document talks about "such as TLS", so Mark believes there is some ambiguity ("what about physical security, etc.").

Russ pointed out that we have guidance for "no plain-text passwords". We have Last Call comments on the need for encryption in this draft, and IESG isn't willing to override Last Call comments.

One-time SASL passwords would work over unencrypted links, but this isn't one-time SASL.

Sam thinks clearer text here would be helpful.

Sam is willing to take the "encryption versus secure" question back to the IETF list to make sure we understand.

We are discussing comments from Jeff Schiller that may have been around longer than Brian-the-IETF-Chair. Given this archeology, Brian asked Sam to took for text that makes sense to Mark without changing the working group's position. Sam asked Mark to help with this text, and Mark agreed to do so.

  o draft-ietf-pkix-sim-07.txt
    Internet X.509 Public Key Infrastructure Subject Identification Method
    (SIM) (Proposed Standard) - 2 of 2
    Token: Russ Housley

Ross entered a NO-OBJ position on this document.

Russ asked if Ted has seen the response from the authors. Ted has seen them but doesn't understand clearly what the authors are proposing to do with proposed text, and Russ doesn't either. "When is binding IDs better than using certificates?"

Ted is concerned about language on trust assumptions ("identity theft never occurs"). There are cases where employee numbers (for example) need to be associated with certificates, and this is different from creating an S/MIME message with a certificate.

Russ thinks this may be more than one round-trip ("AD follow-up").

Lisa also sent text to Russ on this text.

Russ

2.1.2 Returning Item
NONE

2.2 Individual Submissions
2.2.1 New Item
  o draft-mcgrew-aes-gmac-esp-02.txt
    The Use of Galois Message Authentication Code (GMAC) in IPsec ESP and AH
    (Proposed Standard) - 1 of 2
    Note: The T11 FC-SP Working Group needs RFC number by Friday, May 19th.
    Token: Russ Housley

Ross stated NO-OBJ for this draft.

Russ said he's waiting to hear from all of the authors on a proposed change (which is an RFC Editor note).

Cullen asked about a reference. Russ said that 800-38D has not been published (early April at the earliest).

  o draft-saintandre-xmpp-iri-03.txt
    Internationalized Resource Identifiers (IRIs) and Uniform Resource
    Identifiers (URIs) for the Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol
    (XMPP) (Proposed Standard) - 2 of 2
    Token: Ted Hardie

Ross stated NO-OBJ for this draft.

Sam asked if the use of Authority field was consistent with the way URI uses authority. Ted and Lisa think that this is true. Sam's concern is that this is more about a machine than a resource - will discuss this with Lisa offline.

2.2.2 Returning Item
NONE

3. Document Actions

3.1 WG Submissions
Reviews should focus on these questions: "Is this document a reasonable
contribution to the area of Internet engineering which it covers? If
not, what changes would make it so?"

3.1.1 New Item
  o draft-ietf-pce-architecture-04.txt
    A Path Computation Element (PCE) Based Architecture (Informational) - 1 of
    2
    Token: Ross Callon

Ross asked for a week to look at this document (this would have been a DEFER, but it was already DEFERed before Ross became an AD). Alex had voted "yes", but Ross thinks it's important to look at this.

  o draft-ietf-mboned-msdp-mib-01.txt
    Multicast Source Discovery protocol MIB (Experimental) - 2 of 2
    Token: Dan Romascanu

This document was approved with no discussion or objections during the telechat.

Bill noted that he had discussions with Bert about the RFC Editor notes that are associated with this draft. Dan is making sure and will send his "OK".

3.1.2 Returning Item
NONE

3.2 Individual Submissions Via AD
Reviews should focus on these questions: "Is this document a reasonable
contribution to the area of Internet engineering which it covers? If
not, what changes would make it so?"

3.2.1 New Item
  o draft-westerlund-mime-dls-01.txt
    Media Type Registrations for Downloadable Sounds for MIDI (Informational) -
    1 of 1
    Token: Ted Hardie

Ted said that Jari's comment could be clarified during AUTH48.

This document was approved without discussion during the telechat.

3.2.2 Returning Item
NONE
3.3 Individual Submissions Via RFC Editor
The IESG will use RFC 3932 responses: 1) The IESG has not
found any conflict between this document and IETF work; 2) The
IESG thinks that this work is related to IETF work done in WG
<X>, but this does not prevent publishing; 3) The IESG thinks
that publication is harmful to work in WG <X> and recommends
not publishing at this time; 4) The IESG thinks that this
document violates the IETF procedures for <X> and should
therefore not be published without IETF review and IESG
approval; 5) The IESG thinks that this document extends an
IETF protocol in a way that requires IETF review and should
therefore not be published without IETF review and IESG approval.
                                                                              
             
Other matters may be recorded in comments to be passed on
to the RFC Editor as community review of the document.


3.3.1 New Item
  o draft-zorn-radius-port-type-03.txt
    Additional Values for the NAS-Port-Type Attribute (Informational) - 1 of 1
    Token: Dan Romascanu

Brian will move his DISCUSS to a COMMENT. Dan pointed out that a 04 version was submitted a couple of hours ago, but IESG hasn't seen it yet.

There is no objection to RFC Editor publishing this as an Informational RFC.

3.3.2 Returning Item
NONE
3.3.3 For Action
  o draft-xdlee-idn-cdnadmin-06.txt
    Registration and Administration Guideline for Chinese Domain Names
    (Informational) - 1 of 1
    Note: RFC Editor submission for RFC 3932 processing
    Token: Brian Carpenter

Brian pointed out that the authors represent both the Taiwan and PRC NICs, and this needs an AD to shepherding the document.

Ted says that this document should explicitly limit its scope to RFC 3743-compliant registries - other uses in the domain name system will lead to problems when you register traditional Chinese characters. Could another AD shepherd this, so Ted can comment more effectively here?

Mark suggested that "Option 2/Does not conflict" would allow Ted to comment freely, but Mark can shepherd this draft (at least for now). Mark can bring this back to the next telechat (it does need to return).

Will Mark ask WGs? At least DNSDIR, and probably Scott Hollenbeck as well, copying John Klensin as an IDN expert (to avoid surprises later).

4. Working Group Actions
4.1 WG Creation
4.1.1 Proposed for IETF Review
  o FEC over Transport Framework (fecframe) - 1 of 1
    Token: Magnus Westerlund

Dan has sent comments, which were not show-stoppers. Brian pointed out that non-show-stopper comments are often handled when comments come back from external review.

Magnus is OK with doing revised text before it's sent for external review.

Sam thinks this is a very broadly-scoped working group - not a problem, but could be more successful if it was narrowly scoped.

Cullen spoke in favor of sending out revised text (so that the external review comments are on something like the current text).

Cullen asked for a narrowed range of algorithms ("thousands of pages of research"). Magnus thinks that the scope is actually limited to the algorithms chosen by RMT. The key focus is to develop a framework.

Brian thinks that a re-spin seems appropriate (with agreement of IESG and potential WG chairs).

Magnus said that this charter was not discussed during the BOF. Brian says that, in the absence of BOF discussion, the agreement is still within the IESG and potential WG chairs.

Cullen offered to work with Magnus to make sure that the proposed charter text says what Magnus thinks it says.

"Approved pending edits to the charter from Magnus".

4.1.2 Proposed for Approval
    NONE
4.2 WG Rechartering
4.2.1 Under evaluation for IETF Review
    NONE
4.2.2 Proposed for Approval
    NONE

5. IAB News We can use

IAB is more active than you'd expect, right now. Are planning another retreat ("maybe in Iceland").

IAB is thinking about "Routing and Adressing Workshop (RAW)", but hasn't gelled yet (David is pushing for late summer or early fall). May co-locate with NANOG or avoid it, haven't picked a date yet.

Working with ISOC on IETF Journal, but that's going slowly.

Doing IPv6/SHIM6 BOF at RIPE in Instanbul - first time to discuss with European carriers.

NOMCOM has a long "short list" of candidates to replace Pekka Nikander.

There was an issue with moving part of .arpa, but this has happened.

IAB is thinking about "net neutrality".

6. Management Issue

 6.1 Ted Hardie as IAB liaison (Brian Carpenter)

This is through May, and will be discussed at the IESG retreat in May.

 6.2 Formally Remove Bert Wijnen in Expert Review Team (Dan Romascanu)

This has been discussed with Keith and with Bert. Amy will use exact words from the management issue for the announcements.

 6.3 Retreat logistics

Now have a hotel, can and should make our reservations within the next few days. Ross has verified that this works, using the URL that Brian forwarded.

Sam and Barbara are official dining committee...

Please make sure that Ross has your arrival/departure times for meal planning, etc.

Scott Bradner thinks there is wireless in the room (need to doublecheck). Sam can provide a projector if there isn't one available already.

Brian has sent a draft agenda around - please send comments, because Brian doesn't want all the topics coming from Brian.

6.4 message to mailing list maintainers/wg chairs

Brian added this during 6.3 discussion - please speak up if you disagree with the text Ted wrote (enforcing should not be automatic). This will go to working group chairs and mailing list maintainers, from either the IESG or Brian speaking for the IESG.

We probably need to assemble the list of mailing list maintainers (which Henrik may have, but we need to check).

6.5 New version of I-D checklist

Bert added text for telephone numbers, etc. Bert is willing to maintain the list, even as a former AD. Dan will be the co-maintainer (since he needs to liaise with Bert anyway).

7. Agenda Working Group News

Jari Arkko - none

Ross Callon - chartering SIDR - sent out minor update to WG chairs, ADs, got a few comments back. Think we're close to being finished - telechat in two weeks?

Kireeti has resigned as co-chair of CCAMP. Ross is talking to potential replacements.

Brian Carpenter - none

Lisa Dusseault - none

Lars Eggert - will have some recharterings in the next couple of months (TSVWG, NFSv4)

Bill Fenner - having a hard time maintaining appearance of no-conflict in WG chairs (leading candidates for CCAMP are from same companies as Bill and Ross!).

- Dave Meyer - but even ADs are individuals in the IETF, and especially aren't appointed to put company interests ahead of IETF interests.

- Bill - have been working to avoid picking people we know

- Brian - and this will be important in Gen-Area, too

Ted Hardie - LEMONADE will have questions for security advisor soon (so they need a security advisor soon).

- Sam asked for details on the question, to assist in arm-twisting.

- Ted - Luc Pardon has asked IANA to re-open the RFC 3066 registry to add a value.  The new BCP 47 registry is now open, however, so this is not needed.  The AD and IANA are working to clear confusion about how a registry can be active before the RFC establishing it is published.

Sam Hartman - has closed KINK and IDWG recently. Does secretariat have ticket to reclassify draft? Yes.

Russ Housley - new WG chair for PKIX. MOBIKE is close enough to closing that Paul Hoffman will remain as single chair.

Cullen Jennings - liaison with SG16 on Megaco packages? 3GPP and SG16 collided by asking for the same number - SG16 now asking about moving registry to ITU-T website.

- Michelle doesn't think conflicts will be problem in the future

- Cullen doesn't think anyone needs to request specific numbers anyway

David Kessens - not on call today

Jon Peterson - SIP-P2P requesting an interim meeting - any procedural considerations for an interim BOF meeting?

Dan Romascanu - NETCONF list discussions reflecting meeting non-attendees - may not have consensus between chairs and editors. Also considering an interim meeting following IETF meeting in Montreal (Friday afternoon, but may run until Sunday).

- Mark - may confilict with interim meeting guidelines - supposed to be "interim".

- Dan thinks the concern is "30 days BEFORE a meeting", not sure we have guidelines for "AFTER"

- Sam is concerned that this would make it harder to participate in this work due to preparation time for the interim meeting interfering with normal meetings. Mark has the same concern (Mark also has token to update the guidelines). What if people really want to do this? Mark will try to develop consensus on this for future guidance.

- Brian - can get things done in interims, especially getting started, but our meetings have never been intended to be drafting meetings (no matter how many new people expect them to be).

- Mark - why wouldn't you have to schedule an interim every time you need to pull consensus together?

- Dan is expecting 20 people to show up, but the meeting will be open.

- Brian - make sure you don't get surprised with 100 attendees - do head count before the meeting so you don't have to find bigger room, etc. Doesn't have process violation concerns, but you may get comments.

- Mark - could you at least ask these guys about other dates?

- Dan - did not get consensus for May/June on the mailing list.

- Mark - really don't want "after the IETF" to be the default when people can't agree on an interim.

- Brian - does WG know they don't get a room and cookies for the weekend?

- Mark - travel logistics are the only reason to do a knock-on meeting

- Brian - "interim" meetings really should be "in the middle"

- Mark - just pick a time and place, try to accommodate, but know that you won't make everyone happy

Mark Townsley - none

Magnus Westerlund - had left by this point