Minutes of the IESG/IAB BoF Coordination Teleconference IETF 99 7 June 2017 Reported by: Amy Vezza, IETF Secretariat Additional reference materials available at the BoF Wiki (https://trac.tools.ietf.org/bof/trac/). ATTENDEES --------------------------------- Jari Arkko / IAB Alia Atlas / Routing Area Ignas Bagdonas / Scribe Deborah Brungard / Routing Area Spencer Dawkins / Transport Area Mat Ford / ISOC Ted Hardie / IAB Chair Joe Hildebrand / IAB Lee Howard / IAB Suresh Krishnan / Internet Area Mirja Kuehlewind / Transport Area Warren Kumari / Operations and Management Area Terry Manderson / Internet Area Stephanie McCammon / IETF Secretariat Alexey Melnikov / Applications and Real-Time Area Cindy Morgan / IETF Secretariat Kathleen Moriarty / Security Area Erik Nordmark / IAB Mark Nottingham / IAB Eric Rescorla / Security Area Alvaro Retana / Routing Area Martin Thomson / IAB Brian Trammell / IAB Amy Vezza / IETF Secretariat Suzanne Woolf / IAB REGRETS --------------------------------- Alissa Cooper / IETF Chair, General Area Ben Campbell / Applications and Real-Time Area Benoit Claise / Operations and Management Area Susan Hares / Scribe Allison Mankin / IRTF Chair Gabriel Montenegro / IAB Adam Roach / Applications and Real-Time Area Robert Sparks / IAB Jeff Tantsura / IAB APPLICATIONS AND REAL-TIME AREA NONE GENERAL AREA NONE INTERNET AREA o 5G IP Access and Session Management Protocols (5GIP) Responsible AD: Suresh Krishnan Suresh Krishan introduced the 5GIP BoF, and stated that the BoF proponents have been having side meetings for a number of meeting cycles. He also mentioned there was a wide range of topics being discussed on the mailing list, but there has been no convergence in topics, and no narrowing of the scope. He worried the group would not be able to identify and agree on a clear list of topics. Ted Hardie also expressed concern about the lack of concrete topics for specific work items. Suresh mentioned if others felt the meeting would be helpful, he'd be open to a non-wg forming BoF, but would not recommend charter discussion. Alia Atlas also expressed concern on overlap with other work and lack of clarity on the description of work items. She also mentioned that they had been meeting for a year with little progress towards getting work chartered. Jari Arkko also expressed concern over the overlap into 3GPP work. Ted agreed with Jari and added that it might be useful to have an information session talk on the work 3GPP is doing. Suresh agreed it might be useful. The BANANA BoF had a similar issue with BBF, but they solved it by inviting someone from BBF to talk about the work being done. Martin Thomson asked if there had been any coordination efforts on division of labor between 3GPP and the BoF proponents. When it was clear there had not been, he suggested an education session on which group would be responsible for which work item. Spencer Dawkins asked how many people had been attending the side meetings for the last year. Suresh answered that around 50 people had come to the meetings. Eric Rescorla asked what would be the goal from the perspective of the broader community. Spencer mentioned that experts in other areas, who haven't been involved in repeated side meetings, might help bring this proposal into focus. There was a discussion on whether a BoF at IETF 99 would do any good to focus the topic to something useful in regards to BoF or future WG. Jari added that perhaps instead of a BoF, there could be an information session on 5G that doesn't push any specific topic or solution. He mentioned there would be risks that attendees might come into the session with specific solutions. Suresh mentioned that with so little progress towards chartered work over the last year that an information session with 3GPP might bring some clarity to scope the issues for the IETF. Kathleen Moriarty added that a number of BoFs took time to change direction after a first session to focus on what work can be done in the IETF and what work would be better served elsewhere. Erik Nordmark said they need to identify specifics; perhaps a hard reset on priorities would be helpful before a BoF session is approved. Suresh agreed, and added he would take an action item to find and IAB BoF shepherd to assist them in separating work for the IETF from other SDOs areas. The 5GIP BoF was not approved for IETF 99. INTERNET AREA o BANdwidth Aggregation for Network Access (BANANA) Responsible AD: Suresh Krishnan Suresh Krishnan remarked this will be the second BoF on this subject, but the BoF proponents have made improvements and progress since the last BoF was held. He also mentioned a concern of whether the work was of interest to the wider IETF community. Brian Trammell added that the issues raised last time regarding overlapping work being done in BBF. He mentioned that the problem was solved and the danger of conflict was fixed. Mirja Kuehlewind noted that the non-WG forming BoF had a lot of interest, but she wasn't sure if the interest would transfer to a WG or a WG-forming BoF. Suresh recommended approving the BoF effort as a non-WG forming BoF. There were no objections. The BANANA BoF was approved for a 1.5 hour agenda session slot at IETF 99. OPERATIONS AND MANAGEMENT AREA o Network Slicing (NETSLICING) Responsible AD: Benoit Claise Warren Kumari mentioned since Benoit Claise could not make the call, he would stand in as they had discussed the Networking Slicing BoF proposal together. He said the email list was active, and there was progress toward converging ideas. However, they had some concerns about identifying what the issues were, and if everyone was working with the same set of definitions for terms. Warren also mentioned that they were concerned there were other working groups already working on the issues in the proposed charter. Warren indicated that Benoit was leaning toward approving a two hour non-WG forming BoF for the group. Jari Arkko mentioned this work may be premature for 5G, but a properly scoped BoF might be useful. Spencer Dawkins agreed and added that the final result, what work is chartered and which working groups it's chartered in would not matter as long as there were answers to the questions being discussed. Erik Nordmark stated that the gap analysis for the work seemed too broad to be useful. He wasn't sure how to focus on one aspect, but mentioned it would be necessary. Terry Manderson agreed there wasn't clarity on what questions the BoF was looking to answer. He was worried about how much seemed to be dismissed as not relevant. Terry was reluctant to grant them time without more concrete information. He also mentioned an IAB shepherd might help provide guidance for architectural structure. Warren confirmed that at this point it would be a non-WG forming BoF, and they planned to ask the IETF 3GPP liaison to chair the session. Terry reiterated his concern about the proponents not understanding what the landscape is, and suggested bringing in someone new to chair the session instead. Warren agreed that would be useful. He wanted to have a session to bring everyone together to document what exists in this space and agree on what would be useful, and what would be completely out of scope. There was a brief discussion on the people who might be beneficial to chair the session. Both Eric Rescorla and Ted Hardie expressed concern for the success of a BoF session at IETF 99. Warren agreed that it could go either way, but he wanted to have the BoF to see if anything useful came out of it. He mentioned a non-WG forming BoF might help clarify if there is work in this space for the IETF. He would welcome BoF Chair suggestions from the IESG and IAB. The NETSLICING BoF was approved for a 2 hour agenda session slot at IETF 99. ROUTING AREA o IDentity Enabled Networks (IDEAS) Responsible AD: Alvaro Retana Alvaro Retana introduced the IDEAS BoF and mentioned he was inclined to approve the BoF effort, as he found the problem statement useful. The goal of the BoF was to define a framework that could be used by different protocols, i.e. LISP or ILA. Jari Arkko noted that the current description of the BoF proposal felt commercially driven, and wanted the discussion to be about how to solve the problems without influence. Ted Hardie wanted to know if Alvaro would want an IAB Shepherd to assist the BoF proponents and chairs. Alvaro responded in the affirmative, and Erik Nordmark agreed to act as IAB Shepherd and assist in narrowing the scope of the BoF effort. Erik mentioned some concerns with the descriptions for the work not being clear. Spencer Dawkins wondered how much of what they were discussing was research and how much was engineering. Eric Rescorla stated it would be useful to know what deployed protocols would use this work. The IESG and IAB agreed the BoF effort would be useful. The IDEAS BoF was approved for a 1.5 hour agenda session slot at IETF 99. SECURITY AREA NONE TRANSPORT AREA NONE IAB SESSIONS NONE