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Re: [ANCP] ANCP Multicast Admission Control



Hi Sven, Francois et al,
Sorry not replying earlier. I was chairing ITU-T Q.5/11 meeting in Seoul last week, and am in Shenzhen now, and will spend my Spring Festival holidays in Korea next week without internet access.
 
I would let Roberta to reply further if needed:)
 
We support Sven's texts. Minor refinement might be needed.
 
Thanks for all your good comments:) Please see my comments below in line demarked with [Tina: ...].
 
B. R.
Tina
----- Original Message -----
From: OOGHE Sven
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 8:19 PM
Subject: RE: [ANCP] ANCP Multicast Admission Control

Hi Francois,

For clarification: The text concerning PS-->AN and PS-->NAS-->AN
interactions is based on the proposal sent by Tina and Roberta in
http://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ancp/current/msg00446.html. At
that point in time, there was no feedback on the proposal yet.

I see you have concerns with the approach. Tina or Roberta, can you
share your point of view?

Regards,
Sven

-----Original Message-----
From: Francois Le Faucheur IMAP [mailto:flefauch at cisco.com]
Sent: donderdag 31 januari 2008 12:37
To: DE CNODDER Stefaan
Cc: Francois Le Faucheur IMAP; OOGHE Sven; ancp at ietf.org
Subject: Re: [ANCP] ANCP Multicast Admission Control

Hi Stefaan,

On 30 Jan 2008, at 18:32, Stefaan DE CNODDER wrote:

>
> Francois,
>
>> In addition, it is not clear to me how useful these additional models

>> are. It also raises a number of questions. For example, if the Policy

>> Server wants to query the AN, should it do so via the NAS instead of

>> directly to AN?
[Tina: Some slight preference is to via the NAS, as there are many ANs.
Via NAS may reduce the connections. From the point of view of AN, it may
like single interface to NAS rather than one interface to NAS and the other
interface to PS.]
 
>
> Both are possible, is there any preferred way according to you?
>
>  Also, to be able to perform complete Video CAC, the  AN
>> would have to maintain user policy information (eg what is the  
>> fraction of line bandwidth that can be used for Video for that  
>> subscriber at that point in time considering the current DSL train 
>> rate). Is this in line with current ANCP model?
[Tina: Raising this scenario is to implement unciast CAC through ANCP.
AN only maintains bandwidth information, no user policy information.]
 
>> how is user info made available to AN?
[Tina: In AN or PS, manually configure multicast and unicast user bandwidth.]
 
>> What impact does all this have on ANCP?
[Tina: No impact. It expand the ANCP scenario, ANCP can support
 unicast/multicast CAC.]

>> While we can start discussing those questions and the usefulness of 
>> such a model, IMHO this should not delay progress of current ANCP 
>> documents.
>> So in short, I do _not_ support the additional text below relating to

>> the introduction of the new additional model (PS-->NAS-->AN) and 
>> corresponding additional ANCP requirements.
>
> does this mean that you prefer PS-->AN?

No.
I am not expressing any preference for PS-->AN over PS-->NAS-->AN There
seemed to be a lot of additional text proposed below relating to
PS-->NAS-->AN as this involves ANCP more heavily. And I am simply
stating that I do not support adding such text.

The current framework defines PS-->AN and PS-->NAS-->AN as out of scope
for now ("It is therefore beyond the scope of this document.") and I
recommend we do not change scope at this stage if we want to have a
first version of the ANCP protocol in the targeted timeframe. 
Those can always be easily added to the scope/protocol once there is
stronger consensus/understanding or their applicability in the group and
when the WG has completed the first base protocol spec.

Francois


> To be honest, for me both options are valid.  Is there any specific
> reason why you would not like to have the request going to the NAS?
>
> regards,
> Stefaan
>
>
>> Cheers
>> Francois
>> On 28 Jan 2008, at 14:18, OOGHE Sven wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Based on the discussion on the list, I have prepared the following 
>>> text proposal concerning multicast conditional access. I tried to
>>> cover the different scenarios that were identified on the list. This

>>> includes  the proposal from Tina and Roberta, and feedback from
>>> Stefaan.
>>>
>>> If nobody objects, I will use the text below to update the text in
>>> section 3.4.2 in the ANCP Framework. I will also add the
>>> corresponding requirements in section 4.2 (ANCP), 4.7.6 (Access
>>> Node) and
>>> 4.8.6  (NAS).
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Sven
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>> << Section 3.4.2 >>
>>>
>>> 3.4.2.  Multicast Admission Control
>>>
>>> << first part of the section remains unchanged. The text from the 
>>> second bullet onward is updated with below text >>
>>>
>>>   o  Another approach is the reverse: it consists of the Policy
>>> Server
>>>       querying the AN (either directly, or indirectly via the
>>> NAS) so
>>>       that both unicast and multicast CAC for the access line are
>>>       performed by the AN.  In this case, a subscriber request for a
>>>       unicast flow (e.g. a Video on Demand session) will trigger a
>>>       resource request message towards a Policy Server; the latter 
>>> will
>>>       then query the AN, that in turn will perform unicast CAC for
>>> the
>>>       access line and respond, indicating whether the unicast  
>>> request is
>>>       to be honored or denied.
>>>
>>>    The second scenario can be split in to cases:
>>>
>>>    o  In case the Policy Server queries the AN directly, the
>>> approach
>>>       doesn't require the use of ANCP.  It is therefore beyond the 
>>> scope
>>>       of this document.
>>>
>>>    o  In case the Policy Server queries the AN indirectly via the
>>> NAS,
>>>       the interaction can be handled as an ANCP transaction.  
>>> When the
>>>       Policy Server queries the NAS, the NAS can use ANCP to query
>>> the
>>>       AN, specifying the Access-Loop-Circuit-ID and the required
>>>       bandwidth for the requested unicast flow.  Upon receiving the
>>>       query from the NAS, the AN then performs Admission Control and
>>>       responds to the NAS, indicating if this unicast VoD request 
>>> can be
>>>       accepted or denied.
>>>
>>> 3.4.2.1.  When not to perform Admission Control
>>>
>>>    In general, the Access Node and NAS may not be aware of all  
>>> possible
>>>    multicast groups that will be streamed in the access network.  
>>> For
>>>    instance, it is likely that there will be multicast streams
>>> offered
>>>    across the Internet.  For these unknown streams, performing  
>>> bandwidth
>>>    admission control may be challenging.
>>>
>>>    To solve this, these requests could be accepted without
>>> performing
>>>    Admission Control.  This solution works, provided that the
>>> network
>>>    handles the streams as best effort, so that other streams are not
>>>    impacted at times of congestion.
>>>
>>>    Disabling Admission Control for unknown stream can be achieved by
>>>    adding a "catch-all statement" in the Access Node white list or 
>>> grey
>>>    list.  In case the Access Node queries the NAS, the NAS on his
>>> turn
>>>    will have to accept the request.  That way, the unknown streams
>>> are
>>>    not blocked by default.
>>>
>>>    Next, in order to ensure that the streams are handled as best  
>>> effort,
>>>    the flow must be marked as such when entering the service
>>> provider
>>>    network.  This way, whenever congestion occurs somewhere in the
>>>    access/aggregation network, this stream will be kicked out  
>>> before the
>>>    access provider's own premium content.
>>>
>>>    The above concept is applicable beyond the notion of "Internet
>>>    streams" or other unknown streams; it can applied to known  
>>> multicast
>>>    streams as well.  In this case, the Access Node or NAS will
>>> accept
>>>    the stream even when bandwidth may not be sufficient to support
>>> the
>>>    stream.  This again requires that the stream is marked as best 
>>> effort
>>>    traffic before entering the access/aggregation network.
>>>
>>> 3.4.2.2.  Multicast Admission Control and White Lists
>>>
>>>    As mentioned in section Section 3.4.1, conditional access to  
>>> popular
>>>    IPTV channels can be achieved by means of a White and Black list
>>>    configured on the Access Node.  This method allows the Access  
>>> Node to
>>>    autonomously decide whether or not access can be granted to a
>>>    multicast flow.
>>>
>>>    IPTV is an example of a service that will not be offered as best
>>>    effort, but requires some level of guaranteed Quality of Service.
>>>    This requires the use of Multicast Admission Control.  Hence, if

>>> the
>>>    Access Node wants to autonomously perform the admission process,
>>> it
>>>    must be aware of the bandwidth characteristics of multicast
>>> flows.
>>>    Otherwise, the Access Node would have to query the NAS for  
>>> Multicast
>>>    Admission Control; this would defeat the purpose of using a  
>>> White and
>>>    Black list.
>>>
>>>    Some network deployments may combine the use of White list, Black

>>> list
>>>    and Grey list.  In this case, the AN will be aware of the  
>>> portion of
>>>    the bandwidth used on the Access Port for flows matching an  
>>> entry in
>>>    the White list.  In order to perform Multicast Admission Control

>>> for
>>>    flows matching an entry in the Grey list, the NAS should add the
>>>    bandwidth characteristics of the flow in the Admission Response
>>>    message.  In this model, the AN would query the NAS for
>>> conditional
>>>    access, and would then locally perform Multicast Conditional  
>>> Access,
>>>    using the bandwidth information retrieved from the NAS.
>>>
>>> << Section 4.2: add following requirements >>
>>>
>>>    o  The ANCP MUST support providing an Access Node with bandwidth
>>>       information associated with multicast flows that are part of a
>>>       White list.
>>>
>>>    o  The ANCP SHOULD allow the NAS to indicate the bandwidth
>>>       information, associated with the requested multicast flows, 
>>> in the
>>>       admission decision sent to the AN.
>>>
>>>    o  In case a unicast and multicast stream share resources on an
>>>       Access Port, the ANCP MUST allow the NAS to query the AN to
>>>       request an admission decision for a unicast flow to be sent
>>>       over that Port.
>>>
>>> << Section 4.7.6: add following requirements >>
>>>
>>>    o  The AN must be able to perform Admission Control for multicast
>>>       streams, using the bandwith information of the requested  
>>> multicast
>>>       flow.  The information may be provisioned by a management
>>> system
>>>       or by the NAS (using a Control Reqest message or an Admission
>>>       Response message).
>>>
>>>    o  Upon receiving a query from the NAS to request an admission
>>>       decision for a unicast flow to be sent over a particular
>>> Access
>>>       Port, the AN must support using ANCP to reply to the NAS,
>>>       indicating whether the request is to be honored or denied.
>>>
>>>
>>> << Section 4.8.6: add following requirements >>
>>>
>>>    o  The NAS should support using ANCP to configure multicast
>>>       admission control information to Access Ports on an Access
>>> Node.
>>>
>>>    o  Upon receiving a query from the AN for a request to replicate
>>> a
>>>       multicast flow to a particular Access Port, the NAS should  
>>> support
>>>       using ANCP to reply to the AN indicating the bandwidth
>>> information,
>>>       associated with the requested multicast flow.
>>>
>>>    o  Upon receiving a request from a Policy Server for a unicast
>>> flow
>>>       to be sent over a particular Access Port, the NAS must support
>>>       using ANCP to query the AN to receive a response indicating
>>>       whether the request is to be honored or denied.
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>> Sven Ooghe
>>> Alcatel-Lucent
>>> CTO Office, Access Division
>>> Copernicuslaan 50, 2018 Antwerp, Belgium
>>> tel.: +32 3 240 42 26
>>> fax: +32 3 240 40 73
>>>
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