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Re: [ANCP] question regarding Labels in ANCP port up messages



Sanjay,

What do you mean "why I reference an old draft"  ????????????

I'm surprised you even ask...  please take a look at YOUR own internet-draft that most
of the ANCP working implementations are based on, in case you do noFrom ancp-bounces at ietf.org  Wed Apr 30 16:20:17 2008
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From: Peter Arberg <parberg at redback.com>
To: Sanjay Wadhwa <swadhwa at juniper.net>, Tina TSOU <tena at huawei.com>,
	Maglione Roberta <roberta.maglione at telecomitalia.it>,
	"Wojciech Dec (wdec)" <wdec at cisco.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:20:02 -0700
Thread-Topic: [ANCP] question regarding  Labels in ANCP port up messages
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Subject: Re: [ANCP] question regarding  Labels in ANCP port up messages
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Sanjay,
 
What do you mean "why I reference an old draft"  ????????????
 
I'm surprised you even ask...  please take a look at YOUR own internet-draft that most
of the ANCP working impleme are based on, in case you do not have this old
internet-draft, I have attached it to the document.
 
If you look at the reference for this ancp-draft, you will see that in the reference section
you point to this old gsmp-draft...  Yes and I know this has been changed in the later
versions of the ANCP draft, but that do not change the fact that many of the implementations
today was developed when the attached draft was current.
 
I think a very good question is brought up here, and that is what is implemented and
running in networks today ?
 
My take on this is that when the reference was change from the old gsmp-draft to the older
RFC3292, apparently no one paid any attention to the fact the label definition in the event
message was different and not compatible.
 
What current implementations do today is an important factor in this discussion, and I think
it is time to come to realization that we might need a new version number for ANCP since
it continues to look like there is big holes open for interpretation. So if I did a ANCP
implementation there is bound to be interoperability issues with existing implementations
runnig.
 
cheers,
internet-draft, I have attached it to the document.
 
If you look at the reference for this ancp-draft, you will see that in the reference section
you point to this old gsmp-draft...  Yes and I know this has been changed in the later
versions of the ANCP draft, but that do not change the fact that many of the implementations
today was developed when the attached draft was current.
 
I think a very good question is brought up here, and that is what is implemented and
running in networks today ?
 
My take on this is that when the reference was change from the old gsmp-draft to the older
RFC3292, apparently no one paid any attention to the fact the label definition in the event
message was different and not compatible.
 
What current implementations do today is an important factor in this discussion, and I think
it is time to come to realization that we might need a new version number for ANCP since
it continues to look like there is big holes open for interpretation. So if I did a ANCP
implementation there is bound to be interoperability issues with existing implementations
runnig.
 
cheers,
Peter
 
 
 


From: Sanjay Wadhwa [mailto:swadhwa at juniper.net]
Sent: 30. april 2008 14:42
To: Peter Arberg; Tina TSOU; Maglione Roberta; Wojciech Dec (wdec)
Cc: ancp at ietf.org
Subject: RE: [ANCP] question regarding Labels in ANCP port up messages

Peter
  The ANCP draft as it currently stands is based on RFC3292. It provides extensions and modifications to relevant constructs in RFC3292. There is no mention (implicit or explicit) of expired GSMP drafts in the ANCP draft. In order to implement the ANCP draft, I am not sure why one would look at the expired GSMP drafts. Do you see a reason to do this based on anything that you read in the ANCP draft? Bringing up reference to expired gsmp draft in this thread just adds to the confusion. For GSMPv3 objects in the messages (such as Label Type), one has to look at RFC3292 (this is clearly stated in the ANCP draft - section 2 and I am quoting it below) :

ANCP uses a subset of GSMPv3 messages to implement currently defined use-cases. These relevant GSMPv3 messages are identified in section 5. GSMPv3 procedures with suitable extensions, as used by ANCP, are described in sections 5.1, 5.2 and 5.3. GSMPv3 general extensions and GSMPv3 message specific extensions required by ANCP are described in sub-sections of 5.4. In addition to specifying extensions and modifications to relevant GSMP messages applicable to ANCP, this draft also defines the usage of these messages by ANCP, and indicates the values that ANCP should set for relevant fields in these GSMP messages. However, to understand the basic semantics of various fields in GSMP messages, the reader is referred to [4]. => RFC 3292.

What existing implementations currently do is an important but separate issue. These implementations for most part precede the current ANCP draft. It is fine to poll where these implementations diverge from the current draft. It is then upto the implementations (including the one that I am somewhat familiar with) to work towards compliance with the draft.

On the following points from  Woj:

Woj>2) The current version of the spec is not accurate, and does not reflect the fact that the known implementations follow the label field definition from draft-gsmpv3-base-spec.

It is not for the protocol draft to point out what current implementations do.  The best we can do is to further clarify in the draft that type and value fields of the Label object (defined in RFC3292) should be set to 0 in the port-up message (we already mention the lable object as a whole should be set to all 0s).

Woj> This would be a good thing for the WG to discuss. There most evidently is a fair amount of "dead wood" in the current spec, ie stuff tr=#0000ff size=2>Peter

 
 
 


From: Sanjay Wadhwa [mailto:swadhwa at juniper.net]
Sent: 30. april 2008 14:42
To: Peter Arberg; Tina TSOU; Maglione Roberta; Wojciech Dec (wdec)
Cc: ancp at ietf.org
Subject: RE: [ANCP] question regarding Labels in ANCP port up messages

Peter
  The ANCP draft as it currently stands is based on RFC3292. It provides extensions and modifications to relevant constructs in RFC3292. There is no mention (implicit or explicit) of expired GSMP drafts in the ANCP draft. In order to implement the ANCP draft, I am not sure why one would look at the expired GSMP drafts. Do you see a reason to do this based on anything that you read in the ANCP draft? Bringing up reference to expired gsmp draft in this thread just adds to the confusion. For GSMPv3 objects in the messages (such as Label Type), one has to look at RFC3292 (this is clearly stated in the ANCP draft - section 2 and I am quoting it below) :

ANCP uses a subset of GSMPv3 messages to implement currently defined use-cases. These relevant GSMPv3 messages are identified in section 5. GSMPv3 procedures with suitable extensions, as used by ANCP, are described in sections 5.1, 5.2 and 5.3. GSMPv3 general extensions and GSMPv3 message specific extensions required by ANCP are described in sub-sections of 5.4. In addition to specifying extensions and modifications to relevant GSMP messages applicable to ANCP, this draft also defines the usage of these messages by ANCP, and indicates the values that ANCP should set for relevant fields in these GSMP messages. However, to understand the basic semantics of various fields in GSMP messages, the reader is referred to [4]. => RFC 3292.

What existing implementations currently do is an important but separate issue. These implementations for most part precede the current ANCP draft. It is fine to poll where these implementations diverge from the current draft. It is then upto the implementations (including the one that I am somewhat familiar with) to work towards compliance with the draft.

On the following points from  Woj:

Woj>2) The current version of the spec is not accurate, and does not reflect the fact that the known implementations follow the label field definition from draft-gsmpv3-base-spec.

It is not for the protocol draft to point out what current implementations do.  The best we can do is to further clarify in the draft that type and value fields of the Label object (defined in RFC3292) should be set to 0 in the port-up message (we already mention the lable object as a whole should be set to all 0s).

Woj> This would be a good thing for the WG to discuss. There most evidently is a fair amount of "dead wood" in the current spec, iehat nobody yet implements or cares about.  In the former case, we could re-cast that material using the new notions/extensions, in the latter case simply chop it out.

I agree. We are based on GSMPv3 (RFC3292)  messages, and obviously not everything in these messages is leveraged by ANCP.  However, the sync rate and OAM uses-cases are implemented and in use (ideally we should leave these alone...i.e. no change beyond adding more clarity if needed). For anything new (such as multicast) we are defining new messages (no legacy). 

-Sanjay

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Peter Arberg [
mailto:parberg at redback.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 3:56 PM
>To: Tina TSOU; Maglione Roberta; Sanjay Wadhwa; Wojciech Dec (wdec)
>Cc: ancp at ietf.org
>Subject: RE: [ANCP] question regarding Labels in ANCP port up messages
>
>
>Hi,
>
>some times I think it is amazing we ever got interoperability
>of ANCP :-)
>because looking at the label discussion is a very good example that the
>whole GSMP - ANCP reference have not worked very well.
>
>In the ANCP draft, section 5.4.2 the event message is shown like this:
>
>0                   1                   2                   3
>0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>| Vers  |  Sub  | Message Type  | Result|        Code           |
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>| Partition ID  |            Transaction Identifier             |
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>|I|      SubMessage Number      |           Length              |
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>|                             Port                              |
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>|                      Port Session Number                      |
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>|                     Event Sequence Number            &nbs stuff that nobody yet implements or cares about.  In the former case, we could re-cast that material using the new notions/extensions, in the latter case simply chop it out.

I agree. We are based on GSMPv3 (RFC3292)  messages, and obviously not everything in these messages is leveraged by ANCP.  However, the sync rate and OAM uses-cases are implemented and in use (ideally we should leave these alone...i.e. no change beyond adding more clarity if needed). For anything new (such as multicast) we are defining new messages (no legacy). 

-Sanjay

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Peter Arberg [
mailto:parberg at redback.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 3:56 PM
>To: Tina TSOU; Maglione Roberta; Sanjay Wadhwa; Wojciech Dec (wdec)
>Cc: ancp at ietf.org
>Subject: RE: [ANCP] question regarding Labels in ANCP port up messages
>
>
>Hi,
>
>some times I think it is amazing we ever got interoperability
>of ANCP :-)
>because looking at the label discussion is a very good example that the
>whole GSMP - ANCP reference have not worked very well.
>
>In the ANCP draft, section 5.4.2 the event message is shown like this:
>
>0                   1                   2                   3
>0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>| Vers  |  Sub  | Message Type  | Result|        Code           |
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>| Partition ID  |            Transaction Identifier             |
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>|I|      SubMessage Number      |           Length              |
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>|                             Port                              |
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>|                      Port Session Number                      |
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>|                     Event Sequence Number                     |
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>|x|S|x|x|                                                       |
>+-+-+-+-+                     Label                             |
>~                                                               ~
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>|x|x|x|x|x|x|x|x| Message Type  |   Tech Type   | Block Length  |
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>|                                                               |
>~                         Extension Value                       ~
>|                                                               |
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>
>
>This is the exact same event message defined in
>draft-ietf-gsmp-v3-base-spec-08.txt  section 11.
>
>And in this gsmp-draft, section 5.1.3 the label space is defined
>as minimum 8 bytes if the length=0 and as such no value, and this
>is because the gsmp-draft has a new "label adaptaion" field.
>
>
>
>BUT in RFC3292 the event message is show in section 9, like this:
>
>0                   1                   2                   3
>0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>|    Version    | Message Type  |    Result     |     Code      |
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>| Partition ID  |            Transaction Identifier             |
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>|I|      SubMessage Number      |           Length              |
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>|                             Port                              |
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>|                      Port Session Number                      |
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>|                     Event Sequence Number                     |
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>|x|S|x|x|                                                       |
>+-+-+-+-+                     Label                             |
>~                                                               ~
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>
>
>So a different Event Message picture/definition than what is shown
>in the ANCP draft, and in RFC3292 section 3.1.3 the label field
>is defined as 4 bytes if length=0 and as such no value.
>
>
>
>So I very much agree with Woj that we need this issue to be resolved,
>and proabably a show of hands what is actually done in different
>implementations, so we can nail down how the event message is
>suppose to look like in ANCP.
>
>
>I know at least 1 implementation which uses 8 bytes for the
>label field.
>
>
>cheers,
>Peter
>
>
>
>
>
>
>________________________________
>
>        From: ancp-bounces at ietf.org
>[
mailto:ancp-bounces at ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tina TSOU
>        Sent: 30. april 2008 00:19
>        To: Maglione Roberta; Sanjay Wadhwa; Wojciech Dec (wdec)
>        Cc: ancp at ietf.org
>        Subject: Re: [ANCP] question regarding Labels in ANCP
>port up messages
>
>
>        Hi all,
>        It is clear to me that if Label Length is filled as 0,
>there is nothing to be filled into Label Value. The whole
>Label part is 4 bytes, not 8 bytes.
>
>        Cheers from the last working day before Labor's Day
>holidays in some countries:)
>
>        Tina
>
>                ----- Original Message -----
>                From: Wojciech Dec (wdec) <
mailto:wdec at cisco.com>
>                To: Sanjay Wadhwa <
mailto:swadhwa at juniper.net>
> ; Maglione Roberta <
mailto:roberta.maglione at telecomitalia.it>
>                Cc: ancp at ietf.org
>                Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 1:12 AM
>                Subject: Re: [ANCP] question regarding Labels
>in ANCP port up messages
>
>                Sanjay, All,
>
>                What is stated below runs counter to at least
>a handful of ANCP
>                implementations, all of which are known to be
>interoperable.
>                There are really two options:
>                1) The current version of the spec is correct,
>and the known
>                interoperable implementations do not follow it
>                2) The current version of the spec is not
>accurate, and does not reflect
>                the fact that the known implementations follow
>the label field
>                definition from draft-gsmpv3-base-spec.
>
>                I would like to ask you, as the lead editor of
>the spec, to work with
>                the WG in resolving what the problem is, and
>clearing up what the WG
>                spec says about and if 1) holds to be true,
>then proposing an
>                interoperability fix.
>
>                In either case, the issue highlights the fact
>that there is still
>                lingering confusion as to the dependencies
>ANCP has on rfc3292, or
>                draft-gsmpv3-base-spec, or both. It seems to
>be in the best interest of
>                all to address these.
>
>                Regards,
>                Woj.
>
>                > -----Original Message-----
>                > From: Sanjay Wadhwa [
mailto:swadhwa at juniper.net]
>                > Sent: 29 April 2008 17:29
>                > To: Maglione Roberta
>                > Cc: Wojciech Dec (wdec); ancp at ietf.org;
>Philippe Champagne (pchamp)
>                > Subject: RE: question regarding Labels in
>ANCP port up messages
>                >
>                > Hi Maglione
>                >   Yes, the label format is as defined in RFC
>3292. The ANCP draft is
>                > based on RFC 3292 and proposes
>extensions/modifications where
>                > required.
>                > This is clearly stated upfront both in the
>abstract and in
>                > section 2. In
>                > section 5.4.2, it clearly  specifies the
>format of "port up" message
>                > (based on RFC 3292), and explicitly states
>the label field
>                > should be set
>                > to 0. Following is what the draft currently states:
>                >
>                >
>                > 5.4.2 Topology Discovery Extensions
>                >
>                > The GSMP Event message with PORT UP message
>type (80) is used for
>                > conveying DSL line attributes to the NAS.
>The version field should be
>                > set to 3, and the sub field should be set to
>1. The I and subMessage
>                > fields SHOULD be set to 1 to signify no
>fragmentation. The Port and
>                > Label fields should be set to 0.
>                >
>                >  0                   1                   2  
>                3
>                >          0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
>8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5
>                > 6 7 8 9 0 1
>                >
>                >
>                >
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>                >         | Vers  |  Sub  | Message Type  |
>Result|        Code
>                > |
>                >
>                >
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>                >         | Partition ID  |           
>Transaction Identifier
>                > |
>                >
>                >
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>                >         |I|      SubMessage Number      |   
>       Length
>                > |
>                >
>                >
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>                >         |                             Port
>                > |
>                >
>                >
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>                >         |                      Port Session Number
>                > |
>                >
>                >
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>                >         |                     Event Sequence Number
>                > |
>                >
>                >
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>                >         |x|S|x|x|
>                > |
>                >         +-+-+-+-+                     Label
>                > |
>                >         ~
>                > ~
>                >
>                >
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>                >         |x|x|x|x|x|x|x|x| Message Type  |  
>Tech Type   | Block Length
>                > |
>                >
>                >
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>                >         |
>                > |
>                >         ~                         Extension Value
>                > ~
>                >         |
>                > |
>                >
>                >
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>                >
>                > When we say the label field should be set to
>0, the intention
>                > is for the
>                > type and length fields in the label TLV to
>be set to 0. We can
>                > explicitly state this for clarity.
>                >
>                > -Sanjay
>                >
>                > >-----Original Message-----
>                > >From: Maglione Roberta
>[
mailto:roberta.maglione at telecomitalia.it]
>                > >Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 8:06 AM
>                > >To: Sanjay Wadhwa
>                > >Cc: Wojciech Dec (wdec); ancp at ietf.org;
>pchamp at cisco.com
>                > >Subject: RE: question regarding Labels in
>ANCP port up messages
>                > >
>                > >
>                > >Hi Sanjay and All,
>                > >     I was reading the current ancp
>protocol draft in order to
>                > > understand which should be the correct
>format for the label
>                > >field in the ancp port Up message.
>                > >Actually as it was already pointed out in
>the alias the draft
>                > >in section 5.4.2 says "GSMP Event message
>with PORT UP message
>                > >type (80) is used"  thus I am assuming that
>the label in the
>                > >port UP message should follow the message
>format defined in
>                > >RFC 3292, section 3.1.3:
>                > >
>                > >    0                   1                  
>2                   3
>                > >    0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
>0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>                > >  
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>                > >   |x|S|x|x|       Label Type      |       
>  Label Length         |
>                > >  
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>                > >   |                                       
>                       |
>                > >   ~                          Label Value  
>                       ~
>                > >   |                                       
>                       |
>                > >  
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>                > >
>                > >but from what I have seen different
>implementations use
>                > >different format for label field: in
>particular several
>                > >implementations use  a label format that is
>similar to the one
>                > >specified in the expired draft
>draft-ietf-gsmp-v3-base-spec:
>                > >
>                > >     0                   1                 
> 2                   3
>                > >       0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
>8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6
>                > 7 8 9 0 1
>                > >
>                >
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>                > >      |x|S|x|x|x|x|x|x|x|x|x|x|x|x|x|x|    
>       Label
>                > Type         |
>                > >
>                >
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>                > >      |    Label Adaptation           |    
>     Label
>                > Length         |
>                > >
>                >
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>                > >      |
>                >          |
>                > >      ~                          Label Value
>                >          ~
>                > >      |
>                >          |
>                > >
>                >
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>                > >
>                > >
>                > >Even if ancp does not care about the label
>field, having this
>                > >field somehow not clearly specified in the
>current ancp draft
>                > >can easily lead to interoperability issues,
>thus I think it
>                > >would be very helpful if you and/or the
>other editors can
>                > >clarify what should be the correct format
>for the label field
>                > >to be used in the ancp Port Up message.
>                > >
>                > >Thanks and best regards,
>                > >Roberta
>                > >
>                > >________________________________________
>                > >From: Philippe Champagne (pchamp) [pchamp at cisco.com]
>                > >Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 7:14 PM
>                > >To: Sanjay Wadhwa
>                > >Cc: Maglione Roberta; Wojciech Dec (wdec);
>ancp at ietf.org
>                > >Subject: question regarding  Labels in ANCP
>port up messages
>                > >
>                > >Hi Sanjay
>                > >
>                > >In section 5.4.2 of the draft, we have:
>                > >
>                > >
>                > >         0                   1                   2
>                >         3
>                > >         0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6
>7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6
>                > >7 8 9 0 1
>                > >
>                >
>>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>                > >        | Vers  |  Sub  | Message Type  |
>Result|        Code
>                > >         |
>                > >
>                >
>>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>                > >        | Partition ID  |           
>Transaction Identifier
>                > >         |
>                > >
>                >
>>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>                > >        |I|      SubMessage Number      |  
>        Length
>                > >         |
>                > >
>                >
>>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>                > >        |                             Port
>                > >         |
>                > >
>                >
>>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>                > >        |                      Port Session Number
>                > >         |
>                > >
>                >
>>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>                > >        |                     Event Sequence Number
>                > >         |
>                > >
>                >
>>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>                > >        |x|S|x|x|
>                > >         |
>                > >        +-+-+-+-+                     Label
>                > >         |
>                > >        ~
>                > >         ~
>                > >
>                >
>>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>                > >        |x|x|x|x|x|x|x|x| Message Type  |  
>Tech Type   |
>                > >Block Length  |
>                > >
>                >
>>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>                > >        |
>                > >         |
>                > >        ~                         Extension Value
>                > >         ~
>                > >        |
>                > >         |
>                > >
>                >
>>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>                > >Where Label I suppose is taken from the RFC
>3292, section
>                > >3.1.3: (well, I'm guessing)
>                > >
>                > >   A summary of TLV labels supported in
>this version of the
>                > protocol is
>                > >   listed below:
>                > >
>                > >      TLV Label      Type       Section Title
>                > >      ---------      ----       -------------
>                > >      ATM Label      0x100      ATM TLV Labels
>                > >      FR Label       0x101      Frame Relay
>TLV Labels
>                > >      MPLS Gen Label 0x102      MPLS
>Generic TLV Labels
>                > >      FEC Label      0x103      FEC TLV Labels
>                > >
>                > >   All Labels will be designated as follow:
>                > >
>                > >    0                   1                  
>2                   3
>                > >    0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
>0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>                > >  
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>                > >   |x|S|x|x|       Label Type      |       
>  Label Length         |
>                > >  
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>                > >   |                                       
>                       |
>                > >   ~                          Label Value  
>                       ~
>                > >   |                                       
>                       |
>                > >  
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>                > >
>                > >      x: Reserved Flags.
>                > >         These are generally used by
>specific messages and will be
>                > >         defined in those messages.
>                > >
>                > >      S: Stacked Label Indicator
>                > >         Label Stacking is discussed below
>in section 3.1.3.5
>                > >
>                > >      Label Type
>                > >         A 12-bit field indicating the type
>of label.
>                > >
>                > >      Label Length
>                > >         A 16-bit field indicating the
>length of the Label
>                > Value field
>                > >         in bytes.
>                > >
>                > >      Label Value
>                > >         A variable length field that is an
>integer number of 32 bit
>                > >         words long.  The Label Value field
>is interpreted
>                > according to
>                > >         the Label Type as described in the
>following sections.
>                > >
>                > >
>                > >The draft is a bit obscure about this and
>since it doesn't
>                > >specify much, it can lead to
>misinterpretation for the unused
>                > >part. Moreover, it would appear that
>several implementations
>                > >currently use another format for the label
>field. Can you
>                > >explain?  I mean, how come what's in the
>current draft doesn't
>                > >match what's known to be implemented?
>                > >
>                > >I'm still wondering why we carried over
>pieces from GSMP that
>                > >we do not intend to use.
>                > >
>                > >I would recommend that if we are to keep
>them but not use
>                > >them, we should mention precisely how we
>intend not to use
>                > >them: that is how many 0 filled bytes this
>is expected to use
>                > >
>                > >The rfc 3292 doesn't cover the case where
>this field is not used.
>                > >
>                > >Can you shed some ligths on this?
>                > >
>                > >Thanks
>                > >Regards
>                > >Phil
>                > >
>                > >
>                > >
>                >
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>                > >
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     Working Group Name                                     Sanjay Wadhwa 
     Internet Draft                                         Juniper Networks 
     Expires: September 28, 2006                                    
                                                            Jerome Moisand 
                                                            Juniper Networks 
                                                                             
                                                            Swami Subramanian 
                                                             Juniper Networks 
      
                                                            Thomas Haag 
                                                            T-Systems      
      
                                                            Norbert Voigt 
                                                            Siemens 
                                                            
							    March 28, 2006  
                                           
                      GSMP extensions for layer2 control (L2C)                      
                      Topology Discovery and Line Configuration 


                                           
                  draft-wadhwa-gsmp-l2control-configuration-01.txt 


         

     Status of this Memo 

         

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        This Internet-Draft will expire on September 28, 2006. 
      
      
      
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     Internet-Draft      draft-wadhwa-gsmp-l2control-configuration-01        March 2006 
         

     Copyright Notice 

        Copyright (C) The Internet Society (2006).  All Rights Reserved. 

     Abstract 

        This document describes proposed extensions to the GSMP protocol to 
        allow its use in a broadband environment, as a control plane between   
        Access Nodes (e.g. DSLAM) and Broadband Network Gateways (e.g. BRAS). 
        This document focuses on specific use cases, topology discovery and 
        line configuration. It is intended to be complemented by other 
        Internet-drafts focusing on additional use cases. 

     Conventions used in this document 

        The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", 
        "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this 
        document are to be interpreted as described in RFC-2119 [1]. 

     Table of Contents 

        Table of Contents 2 

        1  Specification Requirements  4 

        2  Introduction  4 

        3  Broadband Access Aggregation 4 

           3.1   ATM-based broadband aggregation..........................4 
           3.2   Ethernet-based broadband aggregation.....................6 
        4  Layer2 Control Protocol 7 

           4.1   Overview.................................................7 
           4.2   Layer2 control for Access Topology Discovery.............8 
              4.2.1    Goals..............................................8 
              4.2.2    Message Flow - GSMP mapping........................9 
           4.3   Layer2 control for Line Configuration...................10 
              4.3.1    Goals.............................................10 
              4.3.2    Message Flow - GSMP mapping.......................11 
           4.4   Layer2 Control for Transactional Multicast..............12 
           4.5   Layer2 OAM..............................................13 
              4.5.1    Message Flow - GSMP mapping.......................13 
        5  GSMP for Layer2 Control Protocol 
                                      14 

           5.1   GSMP/TCP connection establishment.......................14 
           5.2   GSMP connection keep-alive..............................15 
      
      
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