Re: [Asrg] More clueless spam bounces AND social contracts

[william@elan.net]

I generally agree with you - if you engage in discussion on the list, there 
is no requirements that you talk to the same person offlist.

However for the benifits of this list's subscribers (and because this maillist 
usually puts original poster's address in "cc:" and you end up sending 
email reply both to them and to the list), I think you should let through 
any email that is a reply to previous asrg email even if it comes directly 
from subscriber to your emailbox (i'm afraid the only way to do it is by 
subject and whitelist subjects that have [Asrg] in them), if you really do 
not want to, then at least do not bounce these emails (/dev/null them if 
you want)

On Sat, 29 Mar 2003, Vernon Schryver wrote:

> > From: Kee Hinckley <nazgul@somewhere.com> 
> 
> > > Your reasoning would require removal of blocks against Cyberpromo and Alan
> > > Ralsky's many domains should Spamford or Ralsky subscribe to this list.
> 
> > Should they engage in the conversation of this list (as opposed to
> > sending spam), then I would say "yes".
> 
> How do I know whether Ralsky has subscribed?  Whenever I subscribe to
> a mailing list, do you say I should remove all spam defenses in case
> Ralsky has already subscribed and wants to send some private non-spam?
> 
> Should every new subscriber to a list post an announcement so that 
> current subscribers can lower filters?
> 
> What if Ralsky subscribes, engages in the conversation of this list,
> and continues to spam?  As far as I can tell, your reasoning requires
> that I permanently turn off my defenses against his spam so that he
> can send me private mail related to the list.  Perhaps you'll answer
> that I'm only required to turn off my defenses from the time I subscribe
> until his next spew.  I wouldn't like that, because I think that I
> should never turn off my defenses for the mere possibility of receiving
> non-spam from him.
> 
> Whatever your reasoning really says instead of my guesses, it seems
> awfully complicated.  I think it all becomes simple, clear, predictable,
> and even polite if subscribing to public mail grants permission only
> to the list reflector, and that all other permissions and consents
> remain unchanged.  Sending private mail is almost always less polite
> than silence.  I think expecting strangers to listen to you or presuming
> to take offense at having strangers slam doors in your face is more
> rude than the door slamming.
> 
> The only bad thing of separating subscribing to mailing lists from
> granting free-passes in spam filters is the shock and horror of  people
> who don't (or refuse to) realize how their own reputations or the
> reputations of their employers preceed them.  The shock, horror, and
> anger of people who have discovered that their reputations are not what
> they hoped is familiar, predictable, and understandable.  Such is life.
> 
> 
> Note again that I'm not saying that people should not send private,
> polite, non-bulk mail to the public addresses of a stranger if they
> reasonably believe that the stranger might be interested.  If they
> have reason to think otherwise (e.g. by virtue of sending from a widely
> blacklisted domain name), they should not be surprised to meet a
> slammed door.  In any case, they have no standing to take offense at
> a slammed door.  Every stranger has the right to say "go away" to
> anyone at any time without any explanation, and not be considered
> "rude" or violating some sort of new superhypeway etiquette.
> 
> Consent to receive mail is always determined by the target!
> 
> This etiquette rule that requires listening to all private mail in order
> to subscribe to a list is news to me, and I've been receiving email as
> "vjs" since 1968, albeit not via SMTP until the last 20 years.  Do the
> filters on the main IETF list currently against at least one person
> violate this new etiquette rule?  What about the IETF-Censored list?
> 
> 
> Vernon Schryver    vjs@rhyolite.com
> _______________________________________________
> Asrg mailing list
> Asrg@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg
> 

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