Re: [Asrg] A New Plan for No Spam / DNSBLS

[J C Lawrence <claw@kanga.nu>]

On Sat, 26 Apr 2003 22:56:52 -0700 
Larry Marks <larry.marks@barberry.com> wrote:
> J C Lawrence wrote:

>> Yup, the accountability is precisely where it should be: all yours.
>> You chose that ISP, you choose to remain with that ISP, and you
>> thereby elect to accept the service they provide, however defined.

> I love your answer! It makes my point so clearly. I certainly didn't
> choose the recipient's ISP, so you must be talking about my (the
> sender's) ISP. My ISP's server got blocked, so they are doing
> something to piss someone off somewhere.

Nope, you've got the direction reversed.

Its parallel to the free speech issue:  You have the freedom to talk,
but nobody is obliged to listen  

> Let's suppose I have chosen one of the largest ISPs in the US so that
> I can be safe from this kind of crap. I just want to do business and
> send Aunt Effie the occasional foto of little Orville. Well, bad
> choice on my part. No safety from the cycops in numbers. I gotta do my
> homework better.

No, its up to your dear Aunt Effie as to how she arranges to receive, if
at all, the mail you send.  Perhaps you might like to advise her in that
regard.  

  You're free to blabber all you want.  She's free to crochet your
  packets into a nice wooly jumper if she can figure out how.

Much more simply we're talking about service definitions and guarantees.
To date, the market hasn't shown much evidence of demanding squat in the
way of either definitions or guarantees at the individual user level
(asides from "less spam"), and so those in the business of offering and
selling those services really haven't spent much time on the area.  It
may be, thru the efforts of good people like yourself, that this will
change.  Heck, I'll help out -- I'd love to see some reliable
non-pessimal assumptions in this space

> If you have anything important to do, don't do it on the Internet.

> That's what you wanted, isn't it?

Hardly.  Its the old deal: You get what you pay for.  If you want
end-to-end guarantees you have to do and contract it yourself.  If you
want some variety of largely undefined best-effort you'll trust to the
cooperation of other uninvolved parties.  You get to pick.

-- 
J C Lawrence                
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. 
claw@kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?		  
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.
_______________________________________________
Asrg mailing list
Asrg@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg