Re: [Asrg] Protecting Legitimate Commercial Email (was Re: ESPC Proposal)

[wayne <wayne@midwestcs.com>]

In <EA2CA870-77F5-11D7-9328-000393A6E524@guppylake.com> Nathaniel Borenstein <nsb@guppylake.com> writes:

> I believe passionately that many kinds of commercial use of email are
> Very Good Things.  Every bill and account statement that I get via
> email saves a fraction of a tree; already whole forests are arguably
> being saved on utility billing, for example.  The same applies to the
> commercial mailings I get from Amazon, the New York Mets, and the
> ACLU. I opted in to their programs, and I want to get their mail.
> Solutions to spam that neglect the interest that those organizations
> have in communicating with me are ultimately not in my interest,
> either.

Yeah, but none of those organizations are a part of either ESPC nor
the JamSpamDownYourThroat people.


> It seems obvious that the ESPC is an attempt by those who self-define
> as legitimate commercial emailers to separate themselves from spam
> well enough to construct discriminating solutions.

Yep, and I've said before:  ->*IF*<- the ESPC standard of conduct is
usable by receivers of email, I expect it to be used in conjunction
with other anti-spam systems.  If, on the other hand, it is only
useful to the senders, I expect it to be ignored.


>                                                                  If we
> neglect their interest in favor of blacklists that prevent 20% of
> their customers from receiving their messages, we will never converge
> on a universal solution, because some very big companies will perceive
> themselves as having no choice but to fight in court against our
> "solutions".

Uh, are you assuming that the 20% of "their customers" that are being
blocked by DNSBLs actually *want* to receive the email?

I suspect that a certain percentage want the email from the ESPC
members and aren't getting it, but I also suspect that a larger
percentage of people are receiving email from the ESPC and don't want
it.

As far as fighting in courts, well, I wouldn't recommend that
solution.  Email senders (spammers or otherwise) haven't won too many
court battles.



> It seems to me that everyone on the ASRG list should be *welcoming*
> the effort that ESPC seems to represent, and that we (the technical
> community) should be engaging in critical but respectful discussions
> about the details.

Uh, and what details are there to discuss?

The only detail that I can see is that ESPC has made a huge PR
announcement with nothing to back them up.  That doesn't sound very
promising to me.


-wayne

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