RE: [Asrg] Another criteria for "what is spam"...

["Peter Kay" <peter@titankey.com>]

I didn't define the explicit side as that's pretty easy to define. It's
the implicit definition that I felt was difficult. 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Barry Shein [mailto:bzs@world.std.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 5:10 PM
> To: Peter Kay
> Cc: Barry Shein; kent@songbird.com; Hallam-Baker, Phillip;
Asrg@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [Asrg] Another criteria for "what is spam"...
> 
> 
> Ok, and if you get overloaded with spam then it's only because you're
> too poor and unimportant to have a secretary sort through your mail
> for you.
> 
> Anyhow, you ignored the part about defining what a legitimate
> solicitation is, is buying an airline ticket sufficient? etc.
> 
> 	     -b
> 
> On June 4, 2003 at 16:43 peter@titankey.com (Peter Kay) wrote:
>  > What you say may be true but its way out of scope here. If your
>  > subscribers sign up for email solicitations and that overloads your
>  > infrastructure, you've definitely got some cost recovery to deal
with
>  > but we don't have a UBE problem.
>  >
>  > > -----Original Message-----
>  > > From: Barry Shein [mailto:bzs@world.std.com]
>  > > Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 4:39 PM
>  > > To: Peter Kay
>  > > Cc: kent@songbird.com; Hallam-Baker, Phillip; Asrg@ietf.org
>  > > Subject: RE: [Asrg] Another criteria for "what is spam"...
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > On June 4, 2003 at 15:53 peter@titankey.com (Peter Kay)
>  > > wrote:  > Yes but we can't define bulk mailing as spamming.
>  > > But we CAN define that  > UNSOLICITED bulk email is spamming.
>  > >
>  > > Actually, I'm not that uncomfortable with defining any "bulk
>  > > mailing" as spamming.
>  > >
>  > > I realize I won't get consensus on that here.
>  > >
>  > > But then again few of you are ISPs expected to just come up
>  > > with the money for resources for every blitz by every fortune
>  > > 1,000,000 company who decides to unload on their (let's say
>  > > for argument's sake) legitimate mailing list hourly.
>  > >
>  > > Special fares at United Airlines? Delta? Wham! Here comes
>  > > 10,000 msgs you frequent flyers!
>  > >
>  > > Campbell's has a new recipe they want to share? Open wide!
>  > >
>  > > NY Times, Wall St Journal, Motley Fool, Salon, etc want to
>  > > send their daily headlines and advertising payload? K'POW!
>  > >
>  > > And don't tell me subscriber fees are supposed to cover this.
>  > > There's almost total disconnect as marketeers get savvier
>  > > about exploiting this medium.
>  > >
>  > > That's like wishing your property taxes covered the postage
>  > > for junk paper mail. What a stupid idea that would be! Or
>  > > that there should be no postage paid by magazines because you
>  > > subscribed to them.
>  > >
>  > > This exercise is kinda like watching legislators make law,
>  > > the OTHER guy's use of tax money is a waste, but MY use of
>  > > tax money is essential to civilization!
>  > >
>  > > Replace "tax money" with "ISP's resources" and you've got my
>  > > point of view.
>  > >
>  > > This is why, without per-message fees, this system is doomed.
>  > > It's just a matter of time.
>  > >
>  > > What we're doing here might postpone doom for a while by
>  > > freeing up resources for blessed floods of bull****, and
>  > > those are mostly my (and
>  > > kindred) resources being freed so I have an interest in that
>  > > happening. But in my opinion not too far in the future the
>  > > current e-mail architecture will just collapse.
>  > >
>  > > One reason why is because the day you stop or minimize spam
>  > > the so-called "legitimate" marketers from those fortune
>  > > 1,000,000 companies will realize that their message will now
>  > > get through and will no longer be confused with those of
>  > > total con-men and scams.
>  > >
>  > > And those marketeers actually have money to spend. P&G spends
>  > > $3B a year on advertising, etc. Need I go on?
>  > >
>  > > They're just waiting on the sidelines for you to build a
>  > > nice, level road for them to drive on, for free.
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > --
>  > >         -Barry Shein
>  > >
>  > > Software Tool & Die    | bzs@TheWorld.com           |
>  > > http://www.TheWorld.com
>  > > Purveyors to the Trade | Voice:
>  > > 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD
>  > > The World              | Public Access Internet     | Since
>  > > 1989     *oo*
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  >
>  >
> 
> --
>         -Barry Shein
> 
> Software Tool & Die    | bzs@TheWorld.com           |
http://www.TheWorld.com
> Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login:
617-739-WRLD
> The World              | Public Access Internet     | Since 1989
*oo*
> 



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