RE: [Asrg] Re: 6. Proposals - rDNS / MTA MARK

["Chris" <asrg@rebel.com.au>]

and your point is?

Regards
Chris




> -----Original Message-----
> From: Markus Stumpf [mailto:maex-lists-spam-ietf-asrg@Space.Net]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 2:18 PM
> To: Chris
> Cc: Markus Stumpf; ASRG
> Subject: Re: [Asrg] Re: 6. Proposals - rDNS / MTA MARK
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 01:05:10PM +1030, Chris wrote:
> > I think it has been amply shown in the past that any system
> that relies on
> > an ISP to "do the right thing" is destined to fail.
>
> This is also true for everything an end user does. And it is also true
> for everything that so called "consultants" do. To cite a customer:
>    "no our mailserver can't be an open relay. we have just paid
>     15000 bucks for a firewall and 10000 bucks for a consultant to set
>     things up".
> This is also true for anything programmers do, just look at bugtraq.
>
> > ISP's could prevent much of the abuse (not just mail) that
> occurs on the net
> > today with such things as your example above, egress filtering.
> but do they?
>
> Enduser could prevent much of the abuse by simply not being so ignorant
> and updating their software. Microsoft could prevent much of the abuse
> by fixing their broken software. OpenSource programmers could prevent
> much of the abuse by learning how to write programs.
>
> I have blocked a customer that relayed viri through our mailserver and
> notified him via phone. First he nearly called me names then they tried
> to sue us. It's hard to find a judge that isn't ignorant and for whom
> sending viri is really something that is evil and not something that
> "you must live with".
>
> > So a system (whichever) must not rely on the ISP, but (IMHO) is
> better if
> > the ISP is "left out in the cold" if he doesn't conform.
>
> A system (whichever) must not rely on any human without a clue or it
> will not work. The best would be if everyone had to pay 10 bucks for
> every email that he'd like to send, to a worldwide central authority.
> 9.90 will go to some human organisations and 0.10 will be used to
> make the central authority.
> Then after about 6 weeks we can shut down email completely as all will
> fall back to send CDs and letters and make phone calls. Shutting down
> SMTP and email will then solve the spam problem. Mission accomplished.
>
> > Would the web have grown as fast as it did if people were
> forced to pay M$
> > dollars for web servers ?
>
> Would we have so much spammers if email weren't free and cheap?
> Would the web be such a mess if HTML would be really complicated?
> Would the Internet be so fsck'ed up if everyone would have to do a
>    really hard exam before getting access and an even harder one before
>    s/he is allowed to connect a computer to the Internet?
>
> If you don't like your ISP, get a new one. If everyone does it the bad
> ISPs will die. BUT: the bad ISPs are cheap, so everyone chooses them and
> all cry about how bad the world is. Don't cry, do something about it.
> It costs money? Only death is for free - and then it costs life.
>
> 	\Maex
>
> --
> SpaceNet AG            | Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 | Fon: +49 (89) 32356-0
> Research & Development |       D-80807 Muenchen    | Fax: +49
> (89) 32356-299
> "The security, stability and reliability of a computer system is
> reciprocally
>  proportional to the amount of vacuity between the ears of the admin"


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