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Re: [AVT] draft-ietf-avt-rtp-vc1-05.txt



On 7 Jan 2006, at 08:49, miska.hannuksela at nokia.com wrote:
T5.
Comment: The sentence "(or the number of layers subscribed for a
layered
multicast session)" suggests that this payload specification can be
used
for layered multicast. We don't think this payload specification is
capable for layered multicast

The wording is consistent with other RFCs that also don't explicitly define how layered multicast will work. See for example RFC 4175 (Uncompressed Video). It uses the same wording, without any explanation for how layered multicast would actually work with that payload format.

I think the "Congestion Control" section is similar to the
"Security Considerations" section, in that it tries to
describe how to handle unlikely scenarios.  (In some RTP
payload format specs, the treatment of congestion control is
actually included in the Security Considerations section
itself.)  The intent is that the section should provide clear
normative language for the appropriate behavior (in this case,
unsubscribing to a multicast group), but detailed discussions
about implementations are out of scope, in my opinion.

As you mentioned in option #2, using this payload format with
layered multicast is not completely impossible.  It could be
done in conjunction with some other RTP payload format or with
some new RTP header extension.  I think that is enough
justification for keeping the sentence in there, just in case
someone will attempt it in the future.
But it is simply out of scope to go in to specific details
about how layered multicast can or cannot be implemented.

The use of layered multicast is obvious for some payload specifications
and therefore need not be explained in the payload specification.
Unfortunately, we think that this is not the case for VC-1. We would
like to avoid the situation in which a sender decides to send
pre-encoded VC-1 content using layered multicast and splits a VC-1
stream to two layers in the most obvious way, i.e. B-frames in the
enhancement layer and reference frames in the base layer but does not
modify the original values of FRMCNT or TFCNTR by any means. Some
receivers receive only base layer, unnecessarily conclude frame losses
due to discontinuous FRMCNT or TFCNTR, and freeze the picture or perform
other error handling because of these unnecessarily detected frame
losses.


We see no harm in clarifying the layered multicast issue in the payload
specification.

Surely the simplest fix here is to remove the text "(or the number of layers subscribed for a layered multicast session)" which is clearly just a historical artefact? (and probably shouldn't have been in RFC 4175 either...)


Colin



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