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Re: [AVT] I-D Action:draft-ietf-avt-rtp-svc-19.txt



Hi Charles, many thanks for your suggestions, which are all agreeable to me.


Hi All, If no one objects these changes, I will implement them and submit a
new version. Please let me know as soon as possible if you do have
objections. 

See also inline below. 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charles Eckel (eckelcu) [mailto:eckelcu at cisco.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:46 AM
> To: Ye-Kui Wang; avt at ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [AVT] I-D Action:draft-ietf-avt-rtp-svc-19.txt
> Importance: Low
> 
> Hi YK,
> 
> This all sounds good. The sprop-operation-point-info 
> parameter provides more flexibility and functionality than I 
> originally thought. Based on my new understanding, I suggest 
> changing the sentence:
> 
>          If there are exactly two
>          operation-point-description vectors, the first describes the
>          lowest and the second describes the highest operation point
>          contained in the RTP session.
> to:
>          If there are two or more
>          operation-point-description vectors, the first describes the
>          lowest and the last describes the highest operation point
>          contained in the RTP session.
> 

OK to me. 

> At the end of the description of sprop-operation-point-info, 
> where it currently reads:
> 
>          A receiver
>          MAY indicate its choice of one layer using the optional media
>          type parameter scalable-layer-id.
> 
> I suggest change to:
> 
>          A receiver
>          MAY indicate its choice of the highest layer it 
> wants to send and/or receive using the optional media
>          type parameter scalable-layer-id.
>          

Good. 

> I also think it would be good to have one of the SDP examples 
> illustrate this by adding a third operation point to the example. 

OK to me. To be simpler, we could just udpate the existing sample to include
three operation points. 

> It might also be a good idea to illustrate that the 
> values of scalable-layer-id do not need to be consecutive. 
> 

OK to me. 

> One other minor thing I noticed while reading the draft:
> 
> Section 7.1
> 
> - max-bitrate:  This value specifies the average bit rate of
>          the operation point.  This parameter is given as an 
> integer in
>          kbits per second and describes the maximum bitrate per each
>          one second window.  Note that this parameter is provided in
>          the scalability information SEI message in bits per 
> second and
>          is  calculated over a variable time window.  This 
> field MAY be
>          empty, indicating that the value is unspecified.
> 
> First line should say maximum bit rate, not average.
> 

Definitely. 

BR, YK

> 
> Thanks,
> Charles       
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ye-Kui Wang [mailto:yekuiwang at huawei.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 7:27 PM
> > To: Charles Eckel (eckelcu); avt at ietf.org
> > Subject: RE: [AVT] I-D Action:draft-ietf-avt-rtp-svc-19.txt
> > 
> > 
> > Hi Charles,
> > 
> > See inline below.
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Charles Eckel (eckelcu) [mailto:eckelcu at cisco.com]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 6:45 PM
> > > To: Ye-Kui Wang; avt at ietf.org
> > > Subject: RE: [AVT] I-D Action:draft-ietf-avt-rtp-svc-19.txt
> > > Importance: Low
> > >
> > > Hi YK,
> > >
> > > Thanks for the response. I have been looking into 
> > > sprop-operation-point-info in more detail, but I unclear on a few 
> > > key concepts that I hope you can clarify for me. Taking 
> the example 
> > > in 7.3.2, the following sprop-operation-point-info may be offered.
> > >
> > >       a=rtpmap:97 H264-SVC/90000
> > >       a=fmtp:97 profile-level-id=53000c; packetization-mode=1;
> > >        sprop-parameter-sets={sps0},{sps1},{pps0},{pps1};
> > >        
> sprop-operation-point-info=<1,0,0,0,4d400a,3200,176,144,128,
> > >       256>,<2,1,1,0,53000c,6400,352,288,256,512>;
> > >
> > > First, take the simple case in which the receiver 
> supports SVC and 
> > > wants to choose the highest operation point. In this case, the 
> > > answer includes scalable-layer-id=2. Does this imply that a base 
> > > layer should be sent corresponding to 
> scalable-layer-id=1, with one 
> > > of more enhancement layers being sent to a maximum of 
> > > scalable-layer-id=2?
> > >
> > 
> > Yes. All the layers, including the base layer, required for decoding
> the
> > operation point corresponding to scalable-layer-id=2 will be sent in
> this
> > case.
> > 
> > > If the receiver supports something higher than
> > > scalable-layer-id=1 but lower than scalable-layer-id=2, does it 
> > > respond with scalable-layer-id=1 and send a base layer 
> corresponding 
> > > to scalable-layer-id=1 but send one of more enhancement layers 
> > > exceeding that defined for scalable-layer-id=1, or does 
> it respond 
> > > with
> > > scalable-layer-id=2 and send a base layer corresponding to
> > > scalable-layer-id=1 and one or more enhancement layers but stops 
> > > short of that defined for scalable-layer-id=2.
> > >
> > 
> > In this case, the answerer responds with 
> scalable-layer-id=1 and sends
> the
> > bitstream for the operation point with scalable-layer-id=1, and the
> offerer
> > also sends the bitstream for the operation point with
> scalable-layer-id=1.
> > Only when the offer explicitly includes more operation points, with
> some
> > corresponding to the intermediate layers, the answerer can 
> choose one
> of
> > them.
> > 
> > > Is it legal to include more than two operation points in the 
> > > sprop-operation-point-info? The following text makes it 
> sound to me 
> > > as if there is a limit of two.
> > >
> > 
> > Yes, you can explicitly include many operation points. The following
> text
> > does not have that implication (at least to me).
> > 
> > BR, YK
> > 
> > >          If the sprop-operation-point-info is followed by exactly
> one
> > > operation-
> > >          point-description vector, this describes the highest 
> > > operation
> > >          point contained in the RTP session.  If there are exactly
> two
> > >          operation-point-description vectors, the first describes
> the
> > >          lowest and the second describes the highest 
> operation point
> > >          contained in the RTP session.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Charles
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Ye-Kui Wang [mailto:yekuiwang at huawei.com]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 7:04 AM
> > > > To: Charles Eckel (eckelcu); avt at ietf.org
> > > > Subject: RE: [AVT] I-D Action:draft-ietf-avt-rtp-svc-19.txt
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Once you are able to signal layering scheme in SDP, you are able
> to
> > > > negotiate layering scheme. To indicate specific resolution and
> frame
> > > rate
> > > > values, you can use the media type parameter
> > > sprop-operation-point-info.
> > > > When providing an SVC stream, it is by default (and
> > > mandated) that the
> > > base
> > > > layer is AVC compatible. Therefore I don't see anything missing.
> > > >
> > > > If the above does not answer your question well, perhaps
> > > you could try
> > > to
> > > > re-elaborate your question.
> > > >
> > > > BR, YK
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Charles Eckel (eckelcu) [mailto:eckelcu at cisco.com]
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 6:59 PM
> > > > > To: Ye-Kui Wang; avt at ietf.org
> > > > > Subject: RE: [AVT] I-D Action:draft-ietf-avt-rtp-svc-19.txt
> > > > > Importance: Low
> > > > >
> > > > > Perhaps I am missing some fundamental aspects of the
> > > draft; however,
> > > > > in reading over it, I do not understand how one would 
> convey the 
> > > > > desired layering scheme. For example, if when using SVC it is 
> > > > > desired for the base layer to be AVC compatible with a given 
> > > > > resolution and frame rate, then for temporal and spatial
> > > enhancement
> > > > > layers to be added on top, how would one signal that. The
> > > example in
> > > > > section 7.3.1 illustrates offering an AVC compatible
> > > stream and an
> > > > > SVC compatible stream; however, it does not illustrate how to 
> > > > > request that if SVC is supported (97) a specific layering
> > > scheme is
> > > > > used that includes an AVC compatible base layer with 
> a specific 
> > > > > resolution and frame rate.
> > > > > Being able to negotiate the layering scheme in SDP 
> seems useful
> to
> > > me.
> > > > > Was this considered?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Charles
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: avt-bounces at ietf.org [mailto:avt-bounces at ietf.org] On
> > > > > Behalf Of
> > > > > Ye-Kui Wang
> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 9:57 AM
> > > > > > To: avt at ietf.org
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AVT] I-D Action:draft-ietf-avt-rtp-svc-19.txt
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Changes compared to -18 are list below, among other minor
> > > editorial
> > > > > changes:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - alignment of recent changes to the RFC 3984bis draft
> > > > > > - update of some references for which the RFCs are now
> available
> > > > > > - SDP examples are now in line with RFC5583
> > > > > > - change of Stephan's affiliation and address
> > > > > > - change of Thomas' email address
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I hope Chairs could issue a second WGLC for this draft.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > BR,YK
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: avt-bounces at ietf.org [mailto:avt-bounces at ietf.org]
> > > > > On Behalf
> > > > > > > Of Internet-Drafts at ietf.org
> > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:45 PM
> > > > > > > To: i-d-announce at ietf.org
> > > > > > > Cc: avt at ietf.org
> > > > > > > Subject: [AVT] I-D Action:draft-ietf-avt-rtp-svc-19.txt
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line
> > > > > Internet-Drafts
> > > > > > > directories.
> > > > > > > This draft is a work item of the Audio/Video Transport
> > > > > Working Group
> > > > > > > of the IETF.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 	Title           : RTP Payload Format for SVC Video
> > > > > > > 	Author(s)       : S. Wenger, et al.
> > > > > > > 	Filename        : draft-ietf-avt-rtp-svc-19.txt
> > > > > > > 	Pages           : 103
> > > > > > > 	Date            : 2009-09-17
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This memo describes an RTP payload format for Scalable
> > > > > Video Coding
> > > > > > > (SVC) as defined in_Annex G of ITU-T Recommendation
> > > > > H.264, which is
> > > > > > > technically identical to Amendment 3 of ISO/IEC
> International
> > > > > > > Standard 14496-10.  The RTP payload format allows for
> > > > > packetization
> > > > > > > of one or more Network Abstraction Layer (NAL) units
> > > in each RTP
> > > > > > > packet payload, as well as fragmentation of a NAL unit in
> > > > > multiple
> > > > > > > RTP packets.
> > > > > > > Furthermore, it supports transmission of an SVC stream
> > > > > over a single
> > > > > > > as well as multiple RTP sessions.  The payload format
> > > > > defines a new
> > > > > > > media subtype name "H264-SVC", but is still backwards
> > > > > compatible to
> > > > > > > [I-D.ietf-avt-rtp-rfc3984bis] since the base layer, when 
> > > > > > > encapsulated in its own RTP stream, must use the H.264
> > > > > media subtype
> > > > > > > name ("H264") and the packetization method 
> specified in [I- 
> > > > > > > D.ietf-avt-rtp-rfc3984bis].  The payload format has wide 
> > > > > > > applicability in videoconferencing, Internet video
> streaming,
> > > and
> > > > > > > high bit-rate entertainment-quality video, among others.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
> > > > > > >
> > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-avt-rtp-svc-19.txt
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> > > > > > > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant
> > > mail reader
> > > > > > > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version
> of
> > > the
> > > > > > > Internet-Draft.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Audio/Video Transport Working Group avt at ietf.org 
> > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/avt
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > 
> 
>