Re: [CCAMP] I-D Action:draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-g709-framework-00.txt

[fu.xihua at zte.com.cn]

Hi Nurit,

I agree with you. All content of section
3 in this draft  is from G.709. In order to be consistent with G.709
(e.g., ODU3 shoudl occupy 31 of the 80 TS in ODU4 based on the current
G.709 Amd3), I suggest the whole content about G.709 be just refered to
G.709 or move to the Appendix.

Best Regards,
Xihua Fu
ZTE Corporation

"Sprecher, Nurit (NSN - IL/Hod HaSharon)" <nurit.sprecher at nsn.com>
发件人:  ccamp-bounces at ietf.org

2009-10-29 上午 12:36

收件人	"ext Fatai Zhang" <zhangfatai at huawei.com>
抄送	"Clemens, Rainer \(NSN - DE/Munich\)" <rainer.clemens at nsn.com>, "Soininen,        Jonne \(NSN - FI/Espoo\)" <jonne.soininen at nsn.com>, CCAMP <ccamp at ietf.org>
主题	Re: [CCAMP] I-D Action:draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-g709-framework-00.txt

Hi Fatai,
I think that in the IETF we should
only put things in the normative part of the document that is also normative
in ITU-T, i.e. in this case only what is written in the normative sections
in G.709. 
Everything in G.Sup43 can go into
an appendix, i.e. mappings of 4x ODU2e into ODU3e1/2 and even OTU2e line
signals. We should also mention what is the actual status of the G.sup43.

Other things that are being discussed
in ITU-T and are not approved should stay completely out.
Best regards,
Nurit

---

From: ext Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai at huawei.com]
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 2:56 PM
To: Sprecher, Nurit (NSN - IL/Hod HaSharon)
Cc: Clemens, Rainer (NSN - DE/Munich); CCAMP; Soininen, Jonne (NSN
- FI/Espoo); Li Dan; han jianrui; lihan at chinamobile.com
Subject: Re: I-D Action:draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-g709-framework-00.txt

Hi Nurit,
 
Thanks for your further comments.
 
We think we can move the content of G.sup43
to an appendix ( just for information), and explain that this part of information
is not consented by ITU-T SG15.
 
We can also remove this appendix later, if
this draft is ready to be RFC and the content of G.sup43 is still not consented
(i.e., non-standard).
 
Is it OK for you? :-)~~~~, If Yes, we will
reflect it in the next version.
 
 
 
Thanks
 
Fatai
 
Advanced Technology Department
Wireline Networking Business Unit
Huawei Technologies Co., LTD.
Huawei Base, Bantian, Longgang,
Shenzhen 518129 P.R.China
Tel: +86-755-28972912
Fax: +86-755-28972935
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Sprecher,
Nurit (NSN - IL/Hod HaSharon) 
To: ext
Fatai Zhang 
Cc: Clemens,
Rainer (NSN - DE/Munich) ; CCAMP
; Soininen,
Jonne (NSN - FI/Espoo) ; Li
Dan ; han
jianrui ; lihan at chinamobile.com

Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 9:40 PM
Subject: RE: I-D Action:draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-g709-framework-00.txt

Hi Fatai,
Thanks for your response.
 
Referring to a document which is not a standard
is problematic and even confusing. I am not sure that all the IETF colleagues
could realize that a supplement document in the ITU-T is not considered
as a standard. As you agreed below, G.Sup43 is NOT a standard. 
I believe it is NOT in the scope of CCAMP
to define the dataplane behavior of ODU switching…we can define a control
plane for a standard dataplane and refer to the dataplane standard behavior.

Once (and if) it is defined as a standard
behavior in the ITU-T, there will be room to specify an extension for GMPLS
(if necessary) to support it. 
 
Also, I would like to note that it was NEVER
discussed in SG1/Q11 to allow other mappings than ODU2e into ODU3e. It
was even explicitly stated that no other mapping should
be described in G.Sup43. The WP3 report from the plenary in December 2008
states that :"After discussion, the agreement was reached to document
two versions of ODU3e, one based on the Huawei and CMCC proposal (using
the eventual GMP chosen for ODU4) and the other based on the NTT and Japan
proposals.  Agreement was
reached to only document the mapping of four 10GBASE-R clients into
each of these two versions of ODU3e in an updated G.Sup43.".
 
Nevertheless, even if specified
in G.Sup43, we need to keep in mind that this is NOT a standard and we
cannot refer to it as such.
 
Best regards,
Nurit

---

From: ext Fatai Zhang [mailto:zhangfatai at huawei.com]
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 9:40 AM
To: Sprecher, Nurit (NSN - IL/Hod HaSharon)
Cc: Clemens, Rainer (NSN - DE/Munich); CCAMP; Soininen, Jonne (NSN
- FI/Espoo); Li Dan; han jianrui; lihan at chinamobile.com
Subject: Re: I-D Action:draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-g709-framework-00.txt
 
Hi Nurit,
 
Thanks for your comments.
 
Please see below for in-line responses.
 
 
 
 
 
Thanks
 
Fatai
 
Advanced Technology Department
Wireline Networking Business Unit
Huawei Technologies Co., LTD.
Huawei Base, Bantian, Longgang,
Shenzhen 518129 P.R.China
Tel: +86-755-28972912
Fax: +86-755-28972935
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Sprecher,
Nurit (NSN - IL/Hod HaSharon) 
To: zhangfatai at huawei.com
; danli at huawei.com
; hanjianrui at huawei.com
; lihan at chinamobile.com

Cc: Clemens,
Rainer (NSN - DE/Munich) ; ccamp at ietf.org
; Soininen,
Jonne (NSN - FI/Espoo) 
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 1:42 AM
Subject: RE: I-D Action:draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-g709-framework-00.txt
 
 
Dear authors, 
 
Thanks for submitting your document
on "Framework for GMPLS and PCE Control of G.709 Optical Transport
Networks".
 
We have reviewed the document and we
are a little bit concerned to find out that some significant items described
in the document are not aligned with what is defined in G.709.
 
Especially the mappings into ODU3e1
and ODU3e2 are only defined in G.Sup43 which is not a standard. 
In addition G.Sup43 does not define
mappings of ODU0, ODU1, ODU2 and ODUflex into ODU3e2. The only mappings
that are defined in G.Sup43 are 4x ODU2e.
 
[Fatai] Yes, you are right and
we also indicated in this draft that ODU3e1 and ODU3e2 are defined in G.Sup43.
You know G.Sup is not standard currently,so I think we have some options
for this. (1)add a note to explain that ODU3e1 and ODU3e2 are still non-standard
explicitly (2) change the title of this draft to "Framework for GMPLS
and PCE Control of Optical Transport Networks" (3) move ODU3e2  to
an appendix.  
In addition, I think we can cover
ODU3e1 and ODU3e2 in this draft at this stage (i.e., individual draft),
because they are being developed in ITU-T and may be accepted by ITU-T
some day.
I will reflect this in the next
version. 
 
 
We are afraid that this is not inline
with the view of the majority of participants in SG15/Q11.
 
[Fatai] I don't know whether it
is true or not. But I think we can hear the opinions from SG15/Q11.
 
Except of the extensions that are already
described in two draft (draft-ceccarellifuxh-ccamp-gmpls-ext-for-evol-otn,
draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-evolving-g709), all other content of section 3,
4 is copied from ITU standards. Would not it be better to just refer to
the ITU-T document?
 
[Fatai] In Section 3, some part
of information is from G.709 and G.872 and we reference this recommendations
explicitly. We just try to give a brief overview of OTN to CCAMP experts
from the perspective of Control Plane and make everyone quickly understand
why we need more considerations on OTN control. I think it is really tough
for everyone to go through G.709, G.872 and other recommendations detailedly.
As for  Section 4, I don't know why you said that it is copied from
ITU standards.  In Section 4, it describes the connection management
model for OTN networks, which is based on our understanding and some discussions
in ITU-T Q12. 
 
Best regards,
Nurit
 
 
 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: i-d-announce-bounces at ietf.org

> [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces at ietf.org]
On Behalf Of ext 
> Internet-Drafts at ietf.org
> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009
11:45 AM
> To: i-d-announce at ietf.org
> Subject: I-D Action:draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-g709-framework-00.txt

> 
> A New Internet-Draft is available
from the on-line 
> Internet-Drafts directories.
> 
>     Title    
      : Framework for GMPLS and PCE Control 
> of G.709 Optical Transport Networks
>     Author(s)  
    : F. Zhang, et al.
>     Filename  
     : draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-g709-framework-00.txt
>     Pages    
      : 27
>     Date    
       : 2009-10-16
> 
> This document provides a framework
for applying Generalized Mulit-
> Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS)
and the Path Computation Element 
> (PCE) architecture to the control
of G.709 Optical Transport Networks 
> (OTN) as specified in the ITU-T
G.709 recommendation, including the 
> enhanced functionality in the
recently consented revision. 
> 
>  
>  
>  
> zhang
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   Expires April 2010
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   [page 1] 
> 
> draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-g709-framework-00.txt
> 
> 
> 
>   October 2009 
>  
> 
> Conventions used in this document

> 
> The key words "MUST",
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NOT", 
> "SHOULD", "SHOULD
NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL"
in this 
> document are to be interpreted
as described in [RFC2119].
> 
> A URL for this Internet-Draft
is:
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-zhang-ccamp-gmpls-g7
> 09-framework-00.txt
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