[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

[Enum] Re: COMMENTS on draft-ra-shin-enum-mobileweb-01.txt



Hi There Tim, Ray,

Please read the draft and the earlier mails from the ML-archive. I don't know how I can spell it out with more clarity than I already have.
There still seem to be folk who think that this is a
->client<-
machine capability specification.


Such an interpretation is Incorrect.

If someone wants to do such a thing, then they can, of course, work on their own Enumservice spec, but this is not it.

The Enumservice proposal in 'draft-ra-shen-enum-mobileweb-01' allows the content provider to specify the forms in which content is provided, and for these specifications to be associated with a telephone number (via ENUM). Thus, for example, a service provider might provide a "personal web page" for their customer, and the forms in which this content is available could be published in the equivalent ENUM zone.

It does not specify the capabilities of a client machine - I would be fascinated with an analysis of the message exchanges needed between different nodes to use such data. Device capability/content form negotiation is indeed an option that (no doubt) the W3C and the Mobi JV members will develop/complete in the future. However, ->this<- Enumservice specification is NOT intended to do that.

In earlier mails I have already mentioned the "bootstrap problem" that exists in the real world, in that once a client has started to request content using (say) WAP, then switching to another available form is an expensive shift - it takes bandwidth and time. If you believe that this can be avoided using non-proprietary means (and that will work with existing devices) then please spell it out.

In the interim, the 'mobileweb' Enumservice allows the client to know what is available - as you mention, without negotiation only the client can know what is its capability, and so is in a position to select between the different available options using whatever browsers it has to hand. This Enumservice means that the client doesn't need to guess.

all the best,
  Lawrence


On 31 Jul 2005, at 23:16, Tim Moss wrote:
I very much agree with Ray here.

It would definitely be a good idea to discuss this proposal with the
World Wide Web Consortium (W3C) Mobile Web Initiative (MWI) as they are
putting significant resource into this area, in particular there are
three W3C working groups that should be contacted.


These are the Device Independence Working Group (DIWG), the MWI Best
Practices Working Group (BPWG) and the Device Description Working Group
(DDWG).


I don't believe that ENUM is necessarily the right place for storing
general device capabilities.  A single phone number could be used by
multiple devices (e.g. if the internet connection is initiated over
Bluetooth to a mobile device) with varying capabilities, or the same
device may have multiple 'browser' clients installed on it e.g. WML
browser, IMODE browser, video player etc.

However, ENUM could be a good place for a user to describe their
particular preferences with respect to how they would like content to be
presented to them, and potentially override any automatic content
adaptation that may otherwise occur.


This should definitely be worked out in detail with the MWI though
rather than splintering off into two (or more) different solutions for
achieving the same result.


Tim Moss CTO Bango

e: tim at bango.com
m: +44 78 8779 4032
t: +44 12 2347 2823
w: http://www.bango.com


Mobile Content World 2005 ****************************************************************** "Come and see us on stand 14 at MCW 2005 Olympia Conference Centre, London, UK 13th - 15th September 2005" www.mobilecontentworld.biz



-----Original Message-----
From: Ray Anderson [mailto:ray at bango.net]
Sent: 25 July 2005 11:42
To: lconroy; Richard Shockey
Cc: 'enum at ietf.org' ENUM; Tim Moss
Subject: COMMENTS on draft-ra-shin-enum-mobileweb-01.txt


Here are my top level comments:

The idea here seems to be to provide "clues" about the
services available at an ENUM addressible site so that a
device or user that could make use of those clues could
provide a better service to the end user.

The aims are good, but acfetr careful consideration I believe
that this proposal is wrong in its approach, and also wrong
as an ENUMservice.  I recommend the authors get involved in
the Mobile Web Initiative.
http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/

(1) Wrong Approach

The W3C is currently engaged on a Mobile Web Initiative which
is working hard to ensure that web sites can give an improved
experience to mobile users.  Currently most web sites are
optimized to big screen users
with a "PC environment (keyboard, distraction level etc.).
There are many
parts to this, not least of which
is that the web site can use information presented by the end
user device (HTTP_ACCEPT among others) to determine how best
to deliver a good experience to users. In addition, the site
can redirect to alternative services that might help, if teh
device has certain characteristics.

Therefore, the idea of tagging a site with different URL's
that are selected between by the client device or the user
should not be necessary, and in fact is more limited because
the hosting site should be able to evolve and adapt its
capabilities much faster than the client device.

There are many reasons why one URL for content promotion /
bookmarking / passing on is a good thing.  Thats probably why
the .MOBI TLD met with so much derision, and was rejected by
W3C, 3GPP, and content providers.


(2) Wrong as an ENUM service

If the ENUM service approach (not withstanding the above)
was to be useful, then surely it should be available across
all domains, not just those in e164.arpa, for example in
www.neustar.biz so that devices accessing those domains can
also provide more appropriate URL's depending on the support
for WAP, ME, iMode, xHTML, VoiceXML, Flash, etc.  In that
case, the extra "clues" should become a general DNS facility,
otherwise only sites accessed by enum URL's could provide the
ease of use.

In that case I assume there is some other working group that
should look at the proposal.




At 13:09 23/07/2005, lconroy wrote:

Hi Folks,
  In case no-one noticed, the mobileweb draft has been updated
to "draft-ra-shin-enum-mobileweb-01.txt".

This draft is covered in section 3.3 of the Agenda.
I would suggest that folk look at the new version BEFORE the ENUM
meeting - the changes are editorial rather than technical,

but given how some

people seem to have interpreted the -00 version so far,

perhaps this one

will clarify things and avoid unnecessary flights of fancy.

I would also advise folk to look at the "modest proposal" draft, but
as it seems vanishingly unlikely that there will be time to

cover that in

the meeting, questions/comments to the list would be appreciated.

all the best,
  Lawrence






_______________________________________________
enum mailing list
enum at ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum