RE: [Geopriv] WGLC: draft-ietf-geopriv-pidf-lo-profile-07.txt

["Winterbottom, James" <James.Winterbottom at andrew.com>]

Hi Henning,

I am in the process of releasing the 08 version of PIDF-LO profile, and I have added an opening paragraph to the introduction that addressed Jerome's concern. I will further add a reference from this section the data model document (RFC4479).

Cheers
James


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Henning Schulzrinne [mailto:hgs at cs.columbia.edu]
> Sent: Thursday, 28 June 2007 7:42 PM
> To: <jerome.grenier at bell.ca>
> Cc: GEOPRIV WG
> Subject: Re: [Geopriv] WGLC: draft-ietf-geopriv-pidf-lo-profile-07.txt
> 
> We definitely need to allow devices (and maybe services) to be at
> different locations, as that is part of the composition algorithm and
> can be used to detect, for example, which service is most likely to
> succeed. A reference from lo-profile to the data model document would
> be most helpful.
> 
> On Jun 26, 2007, at 10:34 AM, <jerome.grenier at bell.ca>
> <jerome.grenier at bell.ca> wrote:
> 
> > Hi James,
> >
> > The example I had in mind was more along the lines of expressing
> > the fact that two of my devices are currently at different
> > locations (using RFC-4479 "A Data Model for Presence") and that
> > I'll be at another location tomorrow (using RFC-4481 "Timed
> > Presence Extensions to the Presence Information Data Format (PIDF)
> > to Indicate Status Information for Past and Future Time
> > Intervals"), all using one PIDF document.
> >
> > As long as it's clear in everyone's mind that draft-ietf-geopriv-
> > pidf-lo-profile does not restrict PIDF-LO documents to the only-one-
> > location-now scenario, I'm fine. I guess that when a PIDF
> > document's structure brings enough semantics to allow me to
> > unambiguously interpret different location pieces scattered in the
> > document, I won't need the guidelines of draft-ietf-geopriv-pidf-lo-
> > profile. However, if a very scoped part of my semantically-
> > structured PIDF document exposes potentially ambiguous pieces of
> > location information, then I'll be happy that the originator of the
> > document has followed draft-ietf-geopriv-pidf-lo-profile so that
> > I'll know that these pieces of location information are not in
> > conflict. It is this whole-document-or-scoped-part nuance that I
> > tried to bring to rule #3, but I realize it was a bit confusing.
> >
> > Either the MUST is changed into RECOMMENDED for rule #3 or
> > (preferably) some text is added to clarify that these rules (those
> > with "MUST") are required only when there is potential for ambiguity.
> >
> > Jérôme
> >
> > -----Message d'origine-----
> > De : Winterbottom, James [mailto:James.Winterbottom at andrew.com]
> > Envoyé : 20 juin 2007 19:53
> > À : Grenier, Jerome (6002687); rjsparks at nostrum.com; geopriv at ietf.org
> > Objet : RE: [Geopriv] WGLC: draft-ietf-geopriv-pidf-lo-profile-07.txt
> >
> > Hi Jerome,
> >
> > Thanks for your comments.
> >
> > So to put an example around your proposed clarification, you think
> > that I should be able to express in a PIDF-LO my current location,
> > and say my nominal home location?
> >
> > I guess I can see where communicating this in a PIDF-LO may be
> > useful, though I am not sure how you can effectively convey that
> > this is home vs current location. Certainly the application we have
> > most discussed to date, call routing, could be sorely confused by
> > doing this. Though, I would be the first to admit that we have only
> > scratched the tip of the iceberg with regards to applications.
> >
> > I found the suggested change in wording quite confusing, and I was
> > really shooting for clarity in these requirements.
> >
> > Would it be reasonable to change the MUST in the original wording
> > to it is RECOMMENED that?
> >
> > This would not preclude it, but would discourage it for general use.
> >
> > Cheers
> > James
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: jerome.grenier at bell.ca [mailto:jerome.grenier at bell.ca]
> >> Sent: Thursday, 21 June 2007 3:11 AM
> >> To: rjsparks at nostrum.com; geopriv at ietf.org
> >> Subject: RE: [Geopriv] WGLC: draft-ietf-geopriv-pidf-lo-
> >> profile-07.txt
> >>
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> The only concern I have is with rule #3 (in section 3):
> >>
> >>    Rule #3:  Providing more than one location chunk in a single
> >> presence
> >>       document (PIDF) MUST only be done if all objects refer to
> >> the same
> >>       place.
> >>
> >> While I agree that that would minimize ambiguity, I find it
> >> incompatible
> >> with RFC-4479 ("A Data Model for Presence") which distinguishes
> >> between
> >> presence attributes for a person, services and devices. Using this
> >> construct, it is quite possible to express more that one "discrete
> >> location" throughout the whole document (for different devices, for
> >> example). I wouldn't want to discard rule #3 altogether however, so I
> >> think adding just a bit of semantics might be sufficient. For
> >> example:
> >>
> >>    Rule #3:  Providing more than one location chunk in a single
> >> presence
> >>       document (PIDF) or in a specific construct, within that
> >> document,
> >> 	that represents a single conceptual entity MUST only be done if all
> >> 	objects refer to the same place.
> >>
> >> I don't care much about the wording... I would just like to avoid
> >> having a
> >> legitimate PIDF-LO guideline limit presence information
> >> expressiveness,
> >> although I acknowledge that achieving expressiveness and
> >> unambiguity at
> >> the same time is not always easy.
> >>
> >> I don't have any specific comment on the geodetic shapes part
> >> (sections 4
> >> and 5) as I'm not very familiar with this area, so all of this
> >> sounds good
> >> to me.
> >>
> >> Also, some minor corrections:
> >>
> >> - (in the abstract) "To allow successfully interoperability"
> >> should read
> >> "To allow successful interoperability"
> >>
> >> - (at the end of rule #9) "with the first document be considered
> >> first"
> >> should read "with the first document considered first"
> >>
> >> - (in section 3.2) "Applying rules #6 and #7 are applied" should read
> >> "Applying rules #6 and #7"
> >>
> >> - (in section 6) "shapes and volumes should assumed" should read
> >> "shapes
> >> and volumes should be assumed"
> >>
> >> - (in section 6) "when associated representing a Target's
> >> location" should
> >> read "when representing a Target's location"
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Jérôme Grenier
> >>
> >> -----Message d'origine-----
> >> De : Robert Sparks [mailto:rjsparks at nostrum.com]
> >> Envoyé : 18 juin 2007 11:10
> >> À : geopriv at ietf.org
> >> Objet : Re: [Geopriv] WGLC: draft-ietf-geopriv-pidf-lo-profile-07.txt
> >>
> >> I have seen zero responses to this call so far. Please get your
> >> response in by the 22nd (that's this Friday).
> >>
> >> RjS
> >>
> >> On Jun 4, 2007, at 12:10 PM, Robert Sparks wrote:
> >>
> >>> All -
> >>>
> >>> Hannes and James tell me that http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
> >>> draft-ietf-geopriv-pdif-lo-profile-07.txt
> >>> is ready for WGLC. This document's been around for a long time, but
> >>> it's been awhile since
> >>> it's received comment on the list. Now is a good time to read
> >>> through it and make sure it says what you
> >>> remember it should say.
> >>>
> >>> I'd like to get a good record of how much review the document's
> >>> received, so please respond even if
> >>> you have no changes to suggest. If you are ok with the document
> >>> progressing, but don't plan to review
> >>> it yourself, I'd like to hear that too.
> >>>
> >>> Please send comments to the list by June 22.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>
> >>> RjS
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>> Geopriv at ietf.org
> >>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/geopriv
> >>
> >>
> >>
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