Re: [hybi] Closing the hybi working group

Takeshi Yoshino <tyoshino@google.com> Mon, 06 October 2014 23:34 UTC

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From: Takeshi Yoshino <tyoshino@google.com>
Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2014 08:33:36 +0900
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To: Alexander Philippou <alex@noemax.com>
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Cc: "hybi@ietf.org" <hybi@ietf.org>, Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>
Subject: Re: [hybi] Closing the hybi working group
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Thanks for the comments about the permessage-deflate. I also think the I-D
is ready for resuming the process and it's still worth putting it into an
RFC.

We shipped it on Chrome by default from Chrome 32 released in Nov 2013.
Ilya published an article introducing the extension:
https://www.igvita.com/2013/11/27/configuring-and-optimizing-websocket-compression/.
Our user metrics analysis has been showing gradual increase of usage count
indicating more and more adoption.

Searching on the web for permessage-deflate or searching on GitHub also
show me implementations of it. In addition to ones already listed in this
thread, e.g. Tomcat, Crossbar.io, Mojolicious. Jetty has but not turned on
by default?

----

One topic I'm still interested in but has been away from is standardization
of liveness-detection (or keep-alive) API. As Wenbo suggested, it could be
done at W3C/WHATWG unless we need any extension to the ping/pong stuff.

Takeshi

On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 8:18 PM, Alexander Philippou <alex@noemax.com> wrote:

> +1, fully agree with Tobias.
>
> Compression was discussed extensively in 2010/2011/2013. By mid-2013 the
> spec was practically done. Any changes since then have been mostly of the
> "cosmetic" type. Takeshi tried to accommodate all feedback and thus
> published several IDs even a year after the discussion between him and most
> major contributors had been happily concluded. The fact that most of us did
> not comment on the latest ID should by no means be taken as an indication
> of indifference or absence of implementation. On the contrary, we were
> quiet because we were afraid that commenting in any way could fuel further
> discussions that might go on to eternity. So what was perceived as silence
> was actually eagerness to see the spec become an RFC. WS is an RFC, WS
> needs compression, please let's have the RFC for WS compression too.
>
> BTW, *thank you* Takeshi for all the work you've done, the spec has been
> concluded well, we appreciate your effort.
>
> Alexander
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: hybi [mailto:hybi-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tobias Oberstein
> > Sent: Saturday 4 October 2014 13:51
> > To: Barry Leiba; hybi@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [hybi] Closing the hybi working group
> >
> > > It's vey clear that HyBi is no longer a working group, and hasn't been
> for
> > some
> > > time.  Takeshi last updated the compression doc in May, and there were
> no
> > > responses.  In general, I have seen no discussion at all about the
> document
> > --
> > > no messages other than from Takeshi, except for a good review by Joakim
> > > Erdfelt in October, and a discussion a year ago June, though there
> continue
> > > to be regular updates to the document
> > > -- nine versions since that June 2013 set of messages.
> > >
> > > So, again: HyBi is no longer a working group -- there are no
> participants.
> > And
> > > the compression doc is not a working group document, it's Takeshi's
> alone,
> > as
> > > far as I can tell.  No one seems to be clamouring for this, no one
> seems
> > eager
> > > to implement it.  And there's no way we can really say that there's a
> > > meaningful version of working group consensus behind what's there now.
> > >
> > > I intend to close the HyBi working group and abandon the compression
> > > document.  I intend to do this on 24 Oct.  If anyone would like to
> discuss
> > this
> > > before it happens, feel free to do that in response to this message.
> >
> > Hello Barry,
> >
> > Actually, permessage-deflate is already implemented and deployed by
> > different implementors - and others are just starting.
> >
> > The AutobahnTestsuite (a WebSocket protocol testsuite) has a whole
> section
> > that tests permessage-deflate extensions, e.g. section 12 here:
> >
> > http://autobahn.ws/testsuite/reports_20140314/clients/index.html
> >
> > What is missing to move the document ("permessage-deflate") to a proper
> > RFC?
> >
> > ===
> >
> > Then, I am planning to take up work again on
> >
> > https://github.com/oberstet/permessage-priority
> >
> > which is another WebSocket extension.
> >
> > Yet another area is WebSocket subprotocols: e.g. for WAMP
> > (http://wamp.ws/), which is an open WebSocket subprotocol
> > with multiple, interoperable implementations. I am planning to rewrite
> the
> > WAMP spec into a RFC.
> >
> > In short: if this group is closed, where should we discuss new WebSocket
> > extensions and subprotocols?
> > And where should we discuss future revisions of WebSocket itself?
> >
> > Doing all this on the HTTP2 list seems suboptimal for various reasons.
> >
> > Probably we should adjust the group charter, but please keep this list
> open ...
> >
> > Cheers,
> > /Tobias
> >
> > >
> > > Barry, Applications AD
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > hybi mailing list
> > > hybi@ietf.org
> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hybi
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > hybi mailing list
> > hybi@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hybi
>
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