Re: [Ietf-message-headers] Provisional registration of 5 X-Device-* HTTP Header fields for use in content transformation guidelines
Francois Daoust <fd@w3.org> Mon, 17 August 2009 07:27 UTC
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Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 09:27:39 +0200
From: Francois Daoust <fd@w3.org>
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To: Graham Klyne <GK@ACM.ORG>
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Subject: Re: [Ietf-message-headers] Provisional registration of 5 X-Device-* HTTP Header fields for use in content transformation guidelines
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Thanks, I will report to the working group, and will likely proceed with the provisional registration of the header fields, with a clear understanding that thorough discussion with IETF is needed to transition from provisional to permanent: 1. because of the use of the "X-" prefix, and 2. because the introduction of new HTTP header fields require as wide a review as possible anyway. Francois. Graham Klyne wrote: > As designated reviewer for registrations, here's my current position: > > If this were a mail header, I think the response would be fairly > clear-cut: the email standards prohibit the standardization of headers > named X-whatever. But this is HTTP, and the last time I checked I > didn't see any specific status for X-headers there. And there is a > general feeling that, while it sometimes serves a purpose, the approach > of using X-headers for experimentation generally does not work, for > reasons that are exemplified by this debate. > > This leaves us with the strong expectations of developers who have > worked with IETF protocols that X-headers are experimental, and not to > be taken seriously. > > The header registration procedure itself deliberately does not take a > position on X- headers, so there is nothing there specifically > prohibiting the permanent registration of X-headers - it's up to the > protocol concerned (HTTP in this case) to specify what is the minimum > requirement for standardization. Permanent registration requires > publication as "open standard", which means a clear community consensus > is required; this is not necessarily an IETF standard - W3C REC is good > - but I'd expect some dialog with the IETF if there appears to be a > conflict of styles or expectations. > > Thus: if the document is approved as an IETF proposed standard with the > X-header specifications (which I think may be effectively required for > all but new HTTP entity-header fields), then I would have no problem > agreeing to the permanent registration of the X-headers. Otherwise, I > would look for IETF review and consensus by IESG and/or HTTP protocol > experts that permanent registration of an X-header is not likely to > cause any problems in other areas. > > Personally, if I have to make the call, I'd allow it because I can't see > any fundamental reason not to do so. But I really would prefer to see > wider review. > > None of this in any way impedes provisional registration. > > #g > -- > > > SM wrote: >> Hi Francois, >> At 00:57 13-08-2009, Francois Daoust wrote: >>> I'm not sure I understand why you directly jump to deprecated at this >>> step. >> >> A provisional registration is a step towards permanent registration. >> Omitting the depreciated status would be an encouragement to adopt >> that header field name. Once that is done, it will be argued that the >> "X-" cannot be dropped. >> >> In future, someone will come up with an argument that there is already >> some "X-" header names in the permanent registry. >> >>> I thought the purpose of the provisional registry was to reserve >>> names while the underlying specification matures along the >>> standard-track. The underlying specification is not definitive, and >>> there will be at least one other Last Call working draft period >>> during which the working group expects to receive external comments >>> both on the choice of names and the usefulness of these HTTP header >>> fields. >> >> Yes. But if the working group is not agreeing on the change now, it >> is improbable that they will agree to it on another Last Call. >> >>> The use of the "X-" prefix has been extensively discussed both >>> formally within the group and informally with some IETF contributors. >>> The fact that companies use private "X-" header field names on a >>> public level is a pity, but it is unfortunately common practice >>> within mobile networks. We are trying to move away from a situation >>> where there exist 5 different sets of "X-" header field names to a >>> situation where there's only one. Mobile content developers complain >>> about the existence of these different sets that were imposed on >>> them. They do not want to hear about a new one, introduced for the >>> sake of removing the "X-" prefix, in particular if that means they >>> would still have to be prepared to receive the "X-" form and the non >>> "X-" during the transition period. >> >> The transition period can be now or later. The longer we wait to do >> such changes, the more difficult it will be. >> >>> That is the reason why the mobile web best practices working group >>> thinks it is reasonable to bend the naming rule here. We are not >>> aware of any real difference between "X-" header fields and regular >>> non "X-" ones, apart from their intended use. >> >> When using "X-" headers, it is difficult to tell whether anyone >> outside the working group is using the headers for other purposes. >> >> Regards, >> -sm >> _______________________________________________ >> Ietf-message-headers mailing list >> Ietf-message-headers@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-message-headers >> >
- [Ietf-message-headers] Provisional registration o… Francois Daoust
- Re: [Ietf-message-headers] Provisional registrati… Francois Daoust
- Re: [Ietf-message-headers] Provisional registrati… SM
- Re: [Ietf-message-headers] Provisional registrati… Francois Daoust
- Re: [Ietf-message-headers] Provisional registrati… SM
- Re: [Ietf-message-headers] Provisional registrati… Francois Daoust
- Re: [Ietf-message-headers] Provisional registrati… SM
- Re: [Ietf-message-headers] Provisional registrati… Francois Daoust
- Re: [Ietf-message-headers] Provisional registrati… SM
- Re: [Ietf-message-headers] Provisional registrati… Francois Daoust