Re: ETSI vs. Magaziner whose interests? (my LAST on this)

[Sascha Ignjatovic <sascha at ISOC.VIENNA.ORG>]

On Sat, 14 Feb 1998, Jim Dixon wrote:

> ISOC has 6,000 members and claims to represent the 60 million users
> of the Internet.  Only the very credulous would accept this claim.

i am not competent to coment on this but my personal vuew is that
isoc is not claiming to represent the 60 million user but to 
represent the internet this user are using 

to use something dont make you to be the "owner" of this 
or to use something dont make you "to be that thing"

the most of the 60 mill dont even care how internet is working  
and who are the people who make it work 

the users dont make it work  they are just using it 

so the users are not "the highest autority" 

you try again and again to use this arguments of broad user representation 
but at the moment there is no such broad user representation posible 

maybe in the future 

if you have some ideas how such broad user "representation" can be achived 
than fine  go on with it 

but it does not change the fact that "the user" who normaly just takes
care on him self and his wellbeeing is not the "ultimative autority"
for the internet  with this also a group of the same users dont mean 
anything - as in some mails befor funy described 


> I am an Internet user.  Which of ISOC's members represents me?  How
> did he or she acquire my support?

i can represent your interest if you want 
or you can become isoc members by your self and represent your interest 
by your self
 

> The Internet has grown at an incredible rate without the help of 
> the ITU.  Many would argue that it has grown at this rate BECAUSE
> of the lack of "help" from large, telco-dominated organizations.

i mean the internet relays on larg part on the infrastructure of the
telcos  without them there will be no internet 
so they are indirectly very helpful to the internet :-)

can you understand this ?
 
> The telcos rightly regard the Internet as a threat.  The growth of
> telephone traffic, ie voice traffic, is more or less limited to 
> population growth, say 2-3% a year overall.  Internet traffic grows
> along a very fast exponential curve, with an increasing amount of that 
> traffic being machine-to-machine.  Internet traffic will shortly or
> has already eclipsed voice in terms of volume and in terms of value
> added.

no they just start to begin to come closer to the internet as every one of
us hase for first time come in contact with the internet and hase give up
his rejections becouse of dont knowing the thing personaly

so telcos are slowly understanding that the internet is somethig wich also
helps them to do their job and busines better  so they start to accept it 
not as a treath but as a friend :-)

> The telcos are fighting a rearguard action.  Everywhere they are 
> lobbying governments to distort pricing and choke Internet traffic.
> In the UK, for every 20p that goes to ISPs for Internet traffic,
> 80p goes to the telcos.  They use this 80p to frantically build 
> defenses against the enemy: us.  They get the money from us, they
> use it to fight us.

na how you would "fight" them ?

do you want to build your own ships and lay cable over the ocean :-)
or just "take them on board" and help them to come closer to the 
wunderful thing internet and let them become a part of our future 
and let them bring in their useful resources and become a equal and useful 
partner

this is a rolle wich the itu can do or is doing it already 

if not they would start such things like oxygen project and remain to
dictate you the price 

 
> Translation: "to mobilize their resources to fight, block, and try to
> take over the Internet".


so you have to be smarter and to help them to understand and accept the
real nature and vision and wonder of the global internet in a nice way and 
they will never forget it and would make you to their friend and leader:-)

of course not you becouse you are not qualyfide to do so
-but maybe if you change some prejudgements and reservations :-)

but there some other organisations like isoc who is qualifyd to 
work in a productive way with such coloses like telcos and 
help also solve some problems like of some little internet service 
provider like you  always complaining about this and that but not ablle 
to solve them

so hier is the benefit of isoc for you of wich you where not avare of
but isoc is doing this for the benefit of internet infrastructure as
wholle and in this way for the benefit of the single internet user as well

mr.dixon you as the single internet user was not ablle to solve the 
"telcos" problem but the isoc as internet metaorganisation is in process
to do so

in you case is the cooperation with the ITU the best thing wich could
hapen so that in this way your problems with the telcos could be solved 

do you belive it(u) ?:-)
-first we should offer trust than we will gain trust !

thanks
sascha
ps.this vuews are personal and dont represent the internet society its 
   officers and its members 

> --
> Jim Dixon                                                 Managing Director
> VBCnet GB Ltd                http://www.vbc.net        tel +44 117 929 1316
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Member of Council                                                 President
> Internet Services Providers Association                       EuroISPA EEIG
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