FW: APNIC's Censorship (Was: Re: Removal from APNIC lists)

[Jim Fleming <JimFleming at unety.net>]

----------
From: 	Jim Fleming[SMTP:JimFleming at unety.net]
Sent: 	Wednesday, May 20, 1998 3:24 AM
To: 	'David R. Conrad'; steve
Cc: 	'Antitrust List'; 'antitrust at usdoj.gov'; 'APPLe '; 
'arin-council at arin.net'; 'BBURR at ntia.doc.gov'; 'Barry Raveendran Greene'; 
'dnrc-board at domain-name.org'; 'DOMAIN-POLICY at LISTS.INTERNIC.NET'; 'Hilarie 
Orman'; 'ip-wg at nic.ad.jp'; 'Ira_C._Magaziner at oa.eop.gov'; 
'laina at singnet.com.sg'; 'MARUYAMA Naomasa'; 'Masataka Ohta'; 'ARIN list'; 
'Jon Postel'; usdh at ccnet.com
Subject: 	RE: APNIC's Censorship (Was: Re: Removal from APNIC lists)


Dear U.S. Netizens,

Please take the time to go to the APNIC web site which
has the URL <http://www.apnic.net>. Please take the
time to answer the following questions for YOURSELF
as you seek the truth. Please put yourself in the position
of a person seeking to apply for the top operational job at
APNIC which is advertised at the bottom of the first page.
What questions might you have as an applicant ?

1. Who are the managers and staff of APNIC ?
2. Where is APNIC located ?
3. Who is on the so-called "Executive Council" of APNIC ?
4. Where are the meeting notes from their meetings ?
5. Where are the mail list archives ?
6. How long did it take you to find the above ? (if you did)

Now, depending on the results of your experiment, ask yourself
what YOUR expectations would be as a potential candidate for
the top operational job at APNIC. Also ask yourself WHY the
U.S. Government continues to delegate millions (if not billions)
of dollars in IPv4 resources to an organization called APNIC.

If after this experiment you are still concerned, then I suggest
that you contact your representatives in Congress, the various
U.S. Embassies in the Asia/Pacific region, the U.S. State
Department, the Department of Commerce and other people
that you know in the region. Find out what their experience has
been with this company called APNIC. Find out what they are
willing to tell you outside of these public mailing lists.

Seek your own truth. It will not take you long. Just start with
the APNIC web site <http://www.apnic.net> and answer the
simple questions above.

Thanks for your time...

Jim Fleming
Concerned U.S. Citizen


P.S. You might also ask yourself why a person that has supposedly
"resigned" continues to participate in APNIC.


On Wednesday, May 20, 1998 12:04 AM, David R. Conrad[SMTP:davidc at apnic.net] 
wrote:
@Steve,
@
@[Not speaking in any capacity for APNIC, after all, I have resigned]
@
@>        In this context, the removal of a thoughtful, thought-provoking,
@>clearly knowledgeable and talented individual from a list,
@
@We have strongly differing opinions of Jim Fleming, as I suspect anyone 
who
@has been targetted in Fleming's spam in the past.  Given Fleming's content
@and posting patterns, I'm beginning to suspect he is actually a very
@twisted version of the "Eliza" program.
@
@>for the vague
@>and unproven crime of "disruptive behavior" is not only disturbing, but
@>violates any principle of openness, seeking of truth, or tolerance of
@>dissent which responsible organizations representing diverse 
participation
@>require and encourage.
@
@I do not recall anyone accusing Jim Fleming of a "crime".  Rather, the
@APNIC Executive Council decided that Jim Fleming's behavior on the
@apnic-talk list was inhibiting discussion of issues before the APNIC
@community, in particular Jim Fleming's tendancy to incessantly cc multiple
@lists and large numbers of individuals with his typically long, rapid 
fire,
@and generally inflamatory messages tends to discourage people from wanting
@to participate publicly (particularly those individuals from cultures that
@prefer not to be involved in direct confrontation).
@
@>        Although all people do not agree with all members of all lists, I
@>find it curious that the person of Mr. Fleming, who raises some of the 
most
@>provocative questions about how and why IP names and numbers are being
@>allocated and managed,
@
@Umm, no.  Jim Fleming raises huge numbers of red herrings, accuses
@individuals of inappropriate behaviors via insinuation and innuendo, often
@refuses to respond to direct questions, lies, misrepresents factual
@information, etc. etc.
@
@He is, by far, the most anti-productive person on the Internet that I am
@aware of -- anyone who makes the mistake of getting involved in trying to
@fend off Fleming's innuendos and insinuations gets dragged down into time
@consuming pointless debates in which Fleming's typical tactic is to flood
@the individual with (often irrelevant, always leading) questions while
@refusing to answer questions put to him.
@
@>is banished from a list at one of the more critical
@>points of developing a clear understanding of how the global system of
@>internet numbering, naming, and governance is occurring.
@
@When a child misbehaves, a common punishment is a "time out".
@
@>For saying this am I being "disruptive" too?  Will I be banished?
@
@Are you even on the APNIC lists?  If you are and if you practice the same
@behavior as Jim Fleming on the APNIC mailing lists, then it is likely you
@too would be removed from those lists.
@
@As an aside, how many mailing lists must dwindle to nothing as all the
@thoughtful people leave because of Fleming?  I was personally glad to see
@the APNIC EC take the action it did as I am in a position to see people
@unsubscribing from the APNIC lists which they did in a surge when Fleming
@started his latest spew.
@
@>        If "disruptive behavior" is a coded term meaning "getting too 
close
@>to the truth for comfort",
@
@
@Which "truth" is IPv8?
@
@>then as one educated U.S. citizen who has
@>attempted to follow the process of evolution of the infrastructure of the
@>"new economy", I insist that Mr. Fleming be reinstated to the list
@>immediately.
@
@Please do not be so parochial.  The fact that you are a US citizen
@(educated or not) doesn't particularly have much relevance.  Your
@insistence, merely sadly amusing.
@
@>        Any member of any list has the right as the navigator of their
@>browser to make the choice to ignore any other individual for any reason. 
@
@Quite true, and in fact I excercise this right with respect to Fleming all
@the time.
@
@>A person need only delete the other person's mail (or use a filter).
@
@Unfortunately, the filtering technology available today does not typically
@remove the offending mail before individuals have already paid to have it
@downloaded.  While undoubtedly you do not see this cost as significant, 
the
@costs of bandwidth outside of the US are significantly higher than those 
in
@the US (and you may have heard of problems with the economy in the 
region).
@
@Further, the people most susceptible to Flemings lies, red herrings, and
@fantasies, the people who are new to the Internet, are generally the 
people
@who have the least understanding about how to employ filters.  In some
@cases, the new individuals are government representatives or are otherwise
@in positions of power.  Given Fleming is filtered by most people who don't
@have too much time on their hands, what results is a one sided
@Fleming-tinged view of various facets of the Internet.  Thus you have the
@problem that the very people who most likely need accuracte information 
are
@unable to obtain it as those who could give a more accurate view of 
reality
@are precisely the one who have either unsubscribed or who delete Flemgrams
@pre-sight.
@
@>It should be a private decision, not a form of official censorship.  By
@>removing Mr. Fleming from the list using the censorship technique, you
@>deprive all people of the value created by the sharing of his intellect.
@>That's what it appears you are trying to do.
@
@The freedom to participate in an open mailing list, as with all freedoms,
@comes with responsibilities.  It would appear the APNIC Executive Council
@did not feel Jim Fleming was living up to those responsibilities.  I
@imagine that unless Fleming learns to act like an adult instead of an
@irresponsible child, he'll be kicked off other lists.  Consider it
@censorship if you like, I believe it is merely good list management.
@
@Regards,
@-drc
@
@
@
@


-
Jim Fleming
Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.net/IPv8
IPv8 - Designed for the Rest of the Human Race
AM Radio Stations ---> http://www.DOT.AM

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