Re: IPR Trust - draft-carpenter-bcp101-update-02 and the IASA

[John C Klensin <john-ietf at jck.com>]

--On Tuesday, September 27, 2005 15:41 -0700 "Lucy E. Lynch" 
<llynch at darkwing.uoregon.edu> wrote:

> On Tue, 27 Sep 2005, John C Klensin wrote:
>
> > Brian,
> >
> > This is a fine document.  Perhaps appropriately, it doesn't
> > say much of anything.
> >
> > Is the actual trust agreement a secret, or does the IETF and
> > IASA intend to make it public before the IESG approves it?
> > Will there be an IETF Last Call that includes an opportunity
> > to review the document itself?
>
> The actual document is still in review and and the on-going
> discussions are privileged as they invole outside parties.
> I've just sent a summary of our framework to the list (you
> anticipated me by a few minutes). The document falls under the
> "contracts or equivalent instruments with outside
> organizations" and IPR related duties of the IASA as outlined
> in section 3 of BCP 101 and as I understand this section is
> not subject to IETF Last Call.

But any new BCP, or modification to a BCP is.  And, whatever the 
negotiations might be that you need to get there, this isn't an 
"agreement with an outside organization", it is how IETF IPR is 
managed by the IASA and an IASA-relevant organization.   A claim 
that such a body is "outside" seems to me to be dubious in the 
extreme.

So, while IASA can probably form the trust in private and tell 
us what has been agreed later, changing the BCP to shift the 
IETF's rights designations from ISOC to something else requires, 
IMO clearly, IETF community approval, just as the decisions to 
shift things _to_ ISOC did.   And whether the community would be 
willing to agree to the draft Brian posted without being able to 
see _exactly_ how the trust is structured... well, I guess one 
could try to find out.

> We are making our best efforts
> to relay information as it becomes available.

Understood and appreciated.

> > I note that the IASA web pages don't mention this at all
> > except for a paragraph under "Draft Agreements".  That says
> >
> > > Proposed IPR Trust
> > > The IAOC received on May 5th a new draft Trust Agreement
> > > from CNRI and is in the process of preparing a response.
> > > The IAOC expects that a revised Trust Agreement will be
> > > sent to CNRI in early June
>
> See the regular minutes posted here:
> http://koi.uoregon.edu/~iaoc/2.html
>
> > And is presumably a bit out of date, given comments in the
> > monthly report you circulated.   And, referring to that
> > report, it also discusses new draft engagement agreements
> > with Counsel and other draft agreements which are not
> > mentioned on the IASA web site, much less available there.
>
> again, please see the minutes.

Lucy, I don't mean to be critical, but the whole IASA 
arrangement was created to provide a strong and easy-to-use 
framework for the community to get it work done.  From my point 
of view at least, that translates into keeping things organized 
enough that the community does not need to read every published 
set of minutes to know what is going on or to find an important 
document.  IASA has professional staff, that staff should either 
be keeping web pages up to date or, IMO, the IAOC has a problem 
which you should be solving on a timely basis, reporting in 
minutes if you can't solve immediately, etc.

> > I am sure all of this is fine, but the agreement with the
> > community when IASA was formed was that all of these things
> > would be public to the extent possible.  To the extent to
> > which few or none of them appear to be available, and the
> > IASA/IAOC does not seem to be able to keep its own web pages
> > current and the community informed that way, rather than via
> > just overview monthly reports, I think it should be a matter
> > of concern to all of us.
>
> we are working within the confines of "to the extent possible"
> and hope to be able to share the document soon.

Thank you.
    john


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