authorizing subsequent use of contributions

[Simon Josefsson <simon at josefsson.org>]

John C Klensin <john-ietf at jck.com> writes:

> However, the IPR WG, in its wisdom, has concluded, in some phrasing
> that was changed fairly late in the game, that the IETF Trust should
> get enough rights in I-Ds to authorize all sorts of subsequent uses of
> them and their content, with no time limit.

You have claimed this before, but I don't understand it.  RFC 2026 says
that the IETF receives a fairly broad license to do anything it wants
with all contributions, see section 10.3.1:

   l. Some works (e.g. works of the U.S. Government) are not subject to
      copyright.  However, to the extent that the submission is or may
      be subject to copyright, the contributor, the organization he
      represents (if any) and the owners of any proprietary rights in
      the contribution, grant an unlimited perpetual, non-exclusive,
      royalty-free, world-wide right and license to the ISOC and the
      IETF under any copyrights in the contribution.  This license
      includes the right to copy, publish and distribute the
      contribution in any way, and to prepare derivative works that are
      based on or incorFrom ietf-bounces at ietf.org  Fri Aug 15 07:48:19 2008
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From: Simon Josefsson <simon at josefsson.org>
To: John C Klensin <john-ietf at jck.com>
Subject: authorizing subsequent use of contributions
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Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 16:48:19 +0200
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John C Klensin <john-ietf at jck.com> writes:

> However, the IPR WG, in its wisdom, has concluded, in some phrasing
> that was changed fairly late in the game, that the IETF Trust should
> get enough rights in I-Ds to authorize all sorts of subsequent uses of
> them and their content, with no time limit.

You have claimed this before, but I don't understand it.  RFC 2026 says
that the IETF receives a fairly broad license to do anything it wants
with all contributions, see section 10.3.1:

   l. Some works (e.g. works of the U.S. Government) are not subject to
      copyright.  However, to the extent that the submission is or may
      be subject to copyright, the contributor, the organization he
      represents (if any) and the owners of any proprietary rights in
      the contribution, grant an unlimited perpetual, non-exclusive,
      royalty-free, world-wide right and license to the ISOC and the
      IETF under any copyrights in the contribution.  This license
      includes the right to copy, publish and distribute the
      contribution in any way, and to prepare derivative works that are
      based on or incorporate aporate all or part of the contribution, the
      license to such derivative works to be of the same scope as the
      license of the original contribution.

As far as I can tell, this quote says the opposite of what you claim,
and I'd like to understand where I fail to understand.

I assume you don't think of RFC 2026 as fairly recent.

Are you disputing that RFC 2026 license gives the IETF rights to
continue working on contributions?

Are you disputing that the term "contribution" covers I-D's?

Are you saying that RFC 2026 contains some other text that imply that
after the 6 months timer as timed out, the license above doesn't hold?

Is your objection that the Trust is now authorized to grant uses outside
of the IETF process?

> That phrasing passed through IETF Last Call and IESG signoff and is
> the context in which the Trust is now writing rules.  It seems to me
> that, if the IETF (through the Trust) is going to be in a position to
> grant rights to use material in I-Ds forever, and if rights to use
> code in I-Ds (even for the first time) don't expire after six months
> or some other closed period, then, logically, we are obligated to keep
> the IPR disclosures forever.

Agreed.

/Simon
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ll or part of the contribution, the
      license to such derivative works to be of the same scope as the
      license of the original contribution.

As far as I can tell, this quote says the opposite of what you claim,
and I'd like to understand where I fail to understand.

I assume you don't think of RFC 2026 as fairly recent.

Are you disputing that RFC 2026 license gives the IETF rights to
continue working on contributions?

Are you disputing that the term "contribution" covers I-D's?

Are you saying that RFC 2026 contains some other text that imply that
after the 6 months timer as timed out, the license above doesn't hold?

Is your objection that the Trust is now authorized to grant uses outside
of the IETF process?

> That phrasing passed through IETF Last Call and IESG signoff and is
> the context in which the Trust is now writing rules.  It seems to me
> that, if the IETF (through the Trust) is going to be in a position to
> grant rights to use material in I-Ds forever, and if rights to use
> code in I-Ds (even for the first time) don't expire after six months
> or some other closed period, then, logically, we are obligated to keep
> the IPR disclosures forever.

Agreed.

/Simon
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