Re: Request for community guidance on issue concerning a future meeting of the IETF
Michael StJohns <mstjohns@comcast.net> Wed, 23 September 2009 18:47 UTC
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Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 14:48:36 -0400
To: Ole Jacobsen <ole@cisco.com>, Eric Rescorla <ekr@networkresonance.com>
From: Michael StJohns <mstjohns@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Request for community guidance on issue concerning a future meeting of the IETF
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At 02:17 PM 9/23/2009, Ole Jacobsen wrote: >BUT I am at a loss >to understand why such a statement would be a required part of our >technical discussion. And I'm at a loss to understand why censoring such a statement (or ejecting an individual who says it, or terminating the IETF meeting in which is was said) should be a required part of an IETF meeting? This isn't a China issue per se - this is about what we expect from and for ourselves in the context of the IETF. We have a way of interacting that - while not pretty - mostly works. It's unclear to me why we should accept restrictions on that way of interacting that are imposed from without. If your answer is - "because there's some benefit to the IETF" - I would then ask what else should we be willing to give up for other benefits and where should we draw the line?
- Request for community guidance on issue concernin… Marshall Eubanks
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Tim Bray
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Matt Crawford
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Scott Brim
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Carsten Bormann
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Marshall Eubanks
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Noel Chiappa
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Donald Eastlake
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [IAB] Request for community guidance on issue… John C Klensin
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Dean Willis
- Re: [IAOC] [IAB] Request for community guidance o… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Dave CROCKER
- Re: [IAB] Request for community guidance on issue… Paul Wouters
- RE: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Ross Callon
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… SM
- Re: [IAOC] [IAB] Request for community guidance o… Noel Chiappa
- RE: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Rahul Aggarwal
- Re: [IAB] Request for community guidance on issue… Henk Uijterwaal
- Re: [IAB] Request for community guidance on issue… Melinda Shore
- RE: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [IAB] Request for community guidance on issue… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Enrico Marocco
- Re: [IAB] Request for community guidance on issue… Tim Bray
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Steven M. Bellovin
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Alissa Cooper
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Gene Gaines
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Marshall Eubanks
- Re: [IAOC] [IAB] Request for community guidance o… Fred Baker
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [IAOC] [IAB] Request for community guidance o… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [IAB] Request for community guidance on issue… Noel Chiappa
- Re: [IAB] Request for community guidance on issue… John C Klensin
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… John C Klensin
- RE: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: [IAB] Request for community guidance on issue… John C Klensin
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Theodore Tso
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Noel Chiappa
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Robert Elz
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Theodore Tso
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: [IAB] Request for community guidance on issue… Pete Resnick
- Re: [IAOC] [IAB] Request for community guidance o… Marshall Eubanks
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Michael StJohns
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Dave CROCKER
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Eric Rescorla
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Steve Crocker
- RE: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Roni Even
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Melinda Shore
- RE: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Tony Hain
- RE: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Roni Even
- Re: [IAB] Request for community guidance on issue… Scott Kitterman
- Re: [IAOC] Request for community guidance on issu… Marshall Eubanks
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Eric Rescorla
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Doug Ewell
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Ole Jacobsen
- RE: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Richard Golodner
- RE: [IAOC] Request for community guidance on issu… Eran Hammer-Lahav
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Simon Perreault
- Re: [IAB] Request for community guidance on issue… Henk Uijterwaal
- RE: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Wassim Haddad
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Michael StJohns
- Re: [IAOC] Request for community guidance on issu… Noel Chiappa
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Steve Crocker
- Re: [IAB] Request for community guidance on issue… John Levine
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Michael StJohns
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Olaf Kolkman
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: [IAB] Request for community guidance on issue… Scott Kitterman
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Noel Chiappa
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Clint Chaplin
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… SM
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Marshall Eubanks
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Tim Bray
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Marshall Eubanks
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Adrian Farrel
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Adrian Farrel
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Dave CROCKER
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Donald Eastlake
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Michael StJohns
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Randall Gellens
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Health
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Peny Yang
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Jari Arkko
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Jari Arkko
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Dave Cridland
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Dave Cridland
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Eric Rescorla
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Dean Willis
- RE: [IAOC] Request for community guidance on issu… HUANG, ZHIHUI (JERRY), ATTLABS
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Stewart Bryant
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Tim Chown
- RE: Request for community guidance on issue conce… David Harrington
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Alan DeKok
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Ben Campbell
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Eric Burger
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Eric Burger
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Eric Burger
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Geoff Mulligan
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… John G. Scudder
- RE: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Mike McBride (mmcbride)
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Randall Gellens
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Randall Gellens
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Rich Kulawiec
- Re: [IAB] Request for community guidance on issue… Scott Brim
- RE: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Steven Blake
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Wes Hardaker
- Visas and Costs Ole Jacobsen
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Tom.Petch
- Re: Visas and Costs John C Klensin
- RE: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Stephane H Maes
- RE: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Randall Gellens
- RE: Visas and Costs Ross Callon
- Re: Visas and Costs Ray Pelletier
- Re: Visas and Costs Michael Richardson
- RE: Visas and Costs HUANG, ZHIHUI (JERRY), ATTLABS
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Joel Jaeggli
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Lindqvist Kurt Erik
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Lindqvist Kurt Erik
- RE: Visas and Costs Ole Jacobsen
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Stephan Wenger
- Re: Visas and Costs Andrew G. Malis
- RE: Visas and Costs HUANG, ZHIHUI (JERRY), ATTLABS
- Re: Visas and Costs Brian E Carpenter
- RE: Visas and Costs John C Klensin
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Dean Willis
- RE: Visas and Costs HUANG, ZHIHUI (JERRY), ATTLABS
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Peny Yang
- RE: Visas and Costs Glen Zorn
- Re: Visas and Costs Stefan Winter
- Re: Visas and Costs John C Klensin
- RE: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Hui Deng
- Re: [IAB] Request for community guidance on issue… Adam Roach
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Adam Roach
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… L. Giuliano
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Adam Roach
- Re: [IAB] Request for community guidance on issue… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Ray Pelletier
- Re: [IAB] Request for community guidance on issue… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: [IAB] Request for community guidance on issue… Dave Cridland
- Re: [IAB] Request for community guidance on issue… Dean Willis
- Re: [IAB] Request for community guidance on issue… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: [IAB] Request for community guidance on issue… Dean Willis
- Re: [IAB] Request for community guidance on issue… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Pete Resnick
- Re: [IAB] Request for community guidance on issue… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: [IAB] Request for community guidance on issue… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Ingemar Johansson S
- Re: [IAB] Request for community guidance on issue… Dave Cridland
- Re: [IAB] Request for community guidance on issue… Adam Roach
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Eric Rescorla
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [IAB] Request for community guidance on issue… Scott Brim
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Eric Rescorla
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Eric Rescorla
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Michael StJohns
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Marshall Eubanks
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Cullen Jennings
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Cullen Jennings
- Re: [IAOC] Request for community guidance on issu… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Dave CROCKER
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Theodore Tso
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Olafur Gudmundsson
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Scott Brim
- Re: [IAOC] Request for community guidance on issu… Alissa Cooper
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Alan Clark
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Wes Hardaker
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: [IAOC] Request for community guidance on issu… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Jari Arkko
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Theodore Tso
- Re: [IAOC] Request for community guidance on issu… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Dave CROCKER
- Re: [IAOC] Request for community guidance on issu… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: [IAOC] Request for community guidance on issu… Dave CROCKER
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Marshall Eubanks
- Re: [IAOC] Request for community guidance on issu… James M. Polk
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Theodore Tso
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Melinda Shore
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Stephan Wenger
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… David Kessens
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Theodore Tso
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… SM
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Spencer Dawkins
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Dean Willis
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Dave CROCKER
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Ole Jacobsen
- RE: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Ross Callon
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Scott Brim
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Dean Willis
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Doug Ewell
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Dean Willis
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Health
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Dean Willis
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Health
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Dean Willis
- Re: [IAOC] Request for community guidance on issu… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Dave CROCKER
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Tim Bray
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Dean Willis
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Dean Willis
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Adam Roach
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Ray Pelletier
- Local Beijing people response - RE: Request for c… Hui Deng
- Re: Local Beijing people response - RE: Request f… Gene Gaines
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Hui Deng
- Re: Local Beijing people response - RE: Request f… Dave CROCKER
- Re: Local Beijing people response - RE: Request f… Steve Crocker
- Re: Local Beijing people response - RE: Request f… Dave CROCKER
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Scott Lawrence
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: Local Beijing people response - RE: Request f… Michael Dillon
- Re: Local Beijing people response - RE: Request f… Stephan Wenger
- Re: Local Beijing people response - RE: Request f… Hui Deng
- Re: [IAOC] Request for community guidance on issu… Cullen Jennings
- Legality of IETF meetings in PRC. Was: Re: Reques… Cullen Jennings
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Cullen Jennings
- Re: [IAOC] Legality of IETF meetings in PRC. Was:… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: Legality of IETF meetings in PRC. Was: Re: Re… Dave CROCKER
- Re: [IAOC] Legality of IETF meetings in PRC. Was:… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: Legality of IETF meetings in PRC. Was: Re: Re… John C Klensin
- Re: Legality of IETF meetings in PRC. Was: Re: Re… Cullen Jennings
- Re: Legality of IETF meetings in PRC. Was: Re: Re… Dave CROCKER
- Re: [IAB] Legality of IETF meetings in PRC. Was: … John C Klensin
- Re: [IAOC] Legality of IETF meetings in PRC. Was:… Theodore Tso
- Re: Legality of IETF meetings in PRC. Was: Re: Re… Cullen Jennings
- Re: Legality of IETF meetings in PRC. Was: Re: Re… Dave CROCKER
- Re: Legality of IETF meetings in PRC. Was: Re: Re… Cullen Jennings
- Re: Legality of IETF meetings in PRC. Was: Re: Re… Jeffrey Hutzelman
- Re: [IAOC] Legality of IETF meetings in PRC. Was:… Marshall Eubanks
- Re: Legality of IETF meetings in PRC. Was: Re: Re… Henk Uijterwaal
- Re: Legality of IETF meetings in PRC. Was: Re: Re… John C Klensin
- Re: Legality of IETF meetings in PRC. Was: Re: Re… Margaret Wasserman
- Re: Legality of IETF meetings in PRC. Was: Re: Re… David Morris
- Re: Legality of IETF meetings in PRC. Was: Re: Re… Henk Uijterwaal
- Re: Legality of IETF meetings in PRC. Was: Re: Re… Margaret Wasserman
- Re: Legality of IETF meetings in PRC. Was: Re: Re… Michael StJohns
- Re: Legality of IETF meetings in PRC. Was: Re: Re… Patrick Suger
- Re: Legality of IETF meetings in PRC. Was: Re: Re… Michael StJohns
- Re: Legality of IETF meetings in PRC. Was: Re: Re… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: Legality of IETF meetings in PRC. Was: Re: Re… Michael StJohns
- Re: Legality of IETF meetings in PRC. Was: Re: Re… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: Legality of IETF meetings in PRC. Was: Re: Re… Patrick Suger
- Re: Legality of IETF meetings in PRC. Was: Re: Re… Theodore Tso
- Re: Legality of IETF meetings in PRC. Was: Re: Re… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: Legality of IETF meetings in PRC. Was: Re: Re… Patrick Suger
- Re: Legality of IETF meetings in PRC. Was: Re: Re… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: Legality of IETF meetings in PRC. Was: Re: Re… Theodore Tso
- Re: Legality of IETF meetings in PRC. Was: Re: Re… Richard Barnes
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Cullen Jennings
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Dave CROCKER
- Re: Legality of IETF meetings in PRC. Was: Re: Re… Michael StJohns
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Scott Lawrence
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Dave CROCKER
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Melinda Shore
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… John C Klensin
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Richard Barnes
- Re: 答复: Legality of IETF meetings in PRC. Was: Re… Richard Barnes
- Re: 答复: Legality of IETF meetings in PRC. Was: Re… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: Request for community guidance on issue conce… Theodore Tso
- Re: Legality of IETF meetings in PRC. Was: Re: Re… Cullen Jennings
- Re: Legality of IETF meetings in PRC. Was: Re: Re… Henk Uijterwaal