Re: [EAI] Re: MIME questions

["Charles Lindsey" <chl at clerew.man.ac.uk>]

On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 18:45:49 +0100, Frank Ellermann  
<nobody at xyzzy.claranet.de> wrote:

> Charles Lindsey wrote:

> > Please do not use the term "message/utf-8". If used,
> > it would apply only to a certain MIME mechanism
>
> It's the message/utf-8 as outlined in the dsn-00 I-D.
> It's the name of a structure almost identical with a
> message/rfc822, "only" allowing UTF-8 in the header
> (or more precisely as specified in the header draft.)
>
> > as a MIME machanism it will not fly in that form,
> > because it violates RFC 2045.
>
> Nothing's wrong with the message/utf-8 MIME type as
> outlined in the DSN I-D.

Yes it is, and Chris Newman had agreed that it would have to be  
application/message-utf-8. That was until a roomful of people in Prague  
forgot that message/utf-8 as they envisaged it was "EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN"  
by RFC 2045.

> > we don't know how to convert a message/utf-8 for an
> > MTA that does not do 8BITMIME.
>
> So let them put an 8BITMIME to 7bit step behind their
> UTF8SMTP to 8BITMIME step.  Where 8BITMIME to 7bit is
> impossible any "direct" UTF8SMTP to 7bit approach is
> also impossible.
>
> UTF8SMTP can completely ignore 7bit because it builds
> on 8BITMIME.

UTF8SMTP requires 8BITMIME to work. If 8BITMIME cannot handle a  
message/utf-8, then neither can UTF8SMTP.
> > Utf8headers is now thought to be almost ready for WG
> > Last Call.
>
> Utf8headers is to 2822, what UTF8SMTP is to 2821.  But
> Utf8headers also updating MIME is IMO too much.  We
> don't have Bruce in this WG (and his proposal to join
> MIME and 2822 consisted of four I-Ds).

Internet mail has been suffering from the 7bit mentality for the last 30  
years, and it has now got to the point where further patching is  
impossible. The whole purpose of this EAI effort it to finally get rid of  
this 7bit nonsense, and hopefully after not too many years all email  
messages will be in UTF8SMTP form and we can finally forget 7bit.

But there is only one chance to get it right, and it we leave little  
pockets of 7bit only stuff around, then it will be much harder to remove  
them later. So that means we have to fix MIME at the same time. But,  
fortunately, it is not too hard to do it, though it does require that  
downgraders must be able to descend through the whole MIME structure.  
Which is nothing new, because 8BITMIME downgraders routinely do that  
anyway.

--
Charles H. Lindsey ---------At Home, doing my own thing------------------------
Tel: +44 161 436 6131 ;                      
   Web: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~chl
Email: chl at clerew.man.ac.uk      Snail: 5 Clerewood Ave, CHEADLE, SK8 3JU, U.K.
PGP: 2C15F1A9      Fingerprint: 73 6D C2 51 93 A0 01 E7 65 E8 64 7E 14 A4 AB A5

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