Re: [EAI] Please - Don't state preferences yet!
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Re: [EAI] Please - Don't state preferences yet!



On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 09:20:26 +0100, John C Klensin <klensin at jck.com> wrote:

Alternate vote optimizes first choices; while there are edge
cases (including possibilities for ties) something basically has
to be someone's first choice in order to win.

Condorcet optimizes one particular preference model.  In
particular, as Charles's model illustrates very well, it assumes
that an option that is everyone's second choice is better than
any option that is the first choices of a minority of the
voters.  As such, one might think of it as one version of the
model that a good choice is the one that leaves everyone more or
less equally unhappy.

It is important to note that any of the systems, including the
ones discussed below, get a lot more complicated, with more ways
to get into strange cases, as the number of options rises above
three.   And any of them can be gamed by colluding voters,
although some are more easily gamed than others.

AFAIK, there is no known way of "gaming" the Condorcet system.

But there are many other options. For example, in a situation like the one we have, there is a strong argument that one should first examine "I completely hate this" votes, eliminating any options that are intensely disliked by a non-trivial number of people, and only then applying a model based on affirmative preferences to what is left. Some feel that works better in environments in which there is a lot of indifference (as long as an answer is found) but a desire to eliminate really bad choices before one is approved based on weak preferences. This sort of system is often considered bad for elections but good for some other types of preference choices.

Yes, and that also relates to the "equally unhappy" idea, which is probably as good as you will ever get when there are extremely polarized opinions. Condorcet gets a little nearer to that than AV, but not entirely so.


The main benefit of Condorcet lies in resolving cases where there are a large number of similar cases (e.g. message/international vs message/intl) between which nobody really cares). And it works best when everybody is encouraged to give at least some preference value to _every_ option, even the ones they don't like.

We have used Condorcet for creation of Newsgroups in uk.* in cases where there have been disagreements over alternative names or alternative moderation options, and it seems to work well. Nobody understands quite how it works, but when the results are presented clearly, everyone can see, and accept, that it has reached a sensible conclusion (usually, it turns out the way people were expecting it to, and the mavericks who insisted on including the unpopular options on the ballot are easily seen to have attracted no support).

--
Charles H. Lindsey ---------At Home, doing my own thing------------------------
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