Re: [EAI] double angle brackets
[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: [EAI] double angle brackets



--On Sunday, September 06, 2009 12:58 PM +0100 Charles Lindsey <chl at clerew.man.ac.uk> wrote:

On Fri, 04 Sep 2009 22:46:26 +0100, Ernie Dainow
<edainow at ca.afilias.info> wrote:

One of the key goals in simplifying Downgrade is to drop the
double   angle bracket notation, due to compatibility and
security concerns.   There have been a few email threads on
this. I think the following   summarizes the current thinking.

Dropping double angle brackets on Recipient addresses is part
of the   downgrade simplification to not support downgrade of
forward pointing   addresses (considering these cases as
configuration errors).

To replace double angle brackets for the Sender, John Klensin
proposed   using multiple From fields. SM amended this with
Reply-To to specify the   preferred address, as in
        From: EAI-addr, ASCII-addr
        Reply-To: EAI-addr
where the EAI-addr gets dropped in Downgrade.

I did some (non-EAI) tests of multiple From fields with
Reply-To on two   different email systems and both worked as
expected. This looks like an   elegant solution.

Yes, but the interesting case is multiple fields in Reply-To.
Normally, these will cause the reply to go to _both_ (but if
one is utf-8 and one is ascii, then the utf-8 might fail).

If we retain the double angle brackets, then one could still
say, in the Reply-To, "please reply to my utf-8 address if
possible, but if your system (or some intermediate server that
knows how to downgrade) can't do that, then please reply to my
ascii address".

And this is different from adding "if this address doesn't work, try that other one" to the email model -- something we have never had, nor missed very much?

The cost and risks of adding new syntax to addresses is quite high, especially given the risk of leakage and of causing serious interoperability problems if things do leak. It may be worth it (I'm still trying to keep an open mind although I'm increasingly doubtful that it is), but, if so, we should have a much stronger justification than a marginal reply-to case, at least IMO.

I would expect that to be the commonest (and most useful)
situation in which those double angle brackets will appear in
practice.

So my preference would be to retain them, at least so long as
these remain Experimental documents. If the eventual Standard
still retains them, then it could still say "this feature may
well be withdrawn in a future version of this standard" (with
the intent to do so when utf-8 has become so widely
implemented that it is no longer needed).

Our experience has been that, if one does that, it will only affect new implementations created after the feature is withdrawn and maybe, for competitive reasons, not even them. For everyone else, if a feature like that is ever supported as part of a standard, it is forever.

   john\

Note: Messages sent to this list are the opinions of the senders and do not imply endorsement by the IETF.