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RE: [ipcdn] IETF NCS Sig MIB Gain (loss) plan and tone Levels



Title: Message
 
After looking at the "pktcNcsEndPntConfigTxGain" and "pktcNcsEndPntConfigRxGain" MIB objects more closely, here are some concerns with these objects resurrected in draft-08 since being obsolete in draft-02.
 
The concerns are two-fold:
 
1. The real value in having this solution for future proofing:
As Rich pointed out, we are trying to future proof the unknown requirements. If this becomes important in the future then we can figure it out then, it is impossible to solve everything up front without understanding all the problems and consequences. The draft-02 has obsolete these two objects after the extensive discussions. Are the problems these two MIB objects are presumably solving important enough to consider the draft change given the current late stage.
 
2. Implementation problems associated with the functionality introduced by these two objects
We understand the benefits of having configurability to meet different country specifications. However, the gain/loss plan is only one component in trying to adapt to different country deployments. The MIB doesn't address other items such as complex impedance, ring voltage, etc. By trying to address the gain/loss in isolation we are actually creating implementation difficulties. This is already solved by MTA manufactures through more intelligent and coordinated methods using both H/W and S/W
 
Providing the ability to dynamically adjust gains means that you are inherently limiting the dynamic range of the DSP to try and address all corner case scenarios. This is a huge implementation problem. Often the per country matching of complex impedances and gains is done in H/W or within the analog interface components like the SLIC. These interfaces are configured for a given country specifications independent of signaling MIBs. This creates a problem when you want to have the gain setting larger than the natural country default. The only solution to meet the desired MIB value is to generate a loud signal (likely clipping within the DSP) in order to adjust for the analog hardware gain.
 
Eugene Nechamkin,
 
Broadcom Corp.


From: ipcdn-bounces at ietf.org [mailto:ipcdn-bounces at ietf.org] On Behalf Of Woundy, Richard
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 4:48 PM
To: 'Freyman Phillip-FPF300'
Cc: 'ipcdn at ietf.org'
Subject: RE: [ipcdn] IETF NCS Sig MIB Gain (loss) plan and tone Levels

>While it is recognized that current standard connection establishment protocols (NCS, SIP) do not support dynamic gain (loss) plan negotiation or assignment at this time, it should be recognized that by establishing the MIB now will enable future protocol updates to improve the end user experience.
 
Or sometimes, they interfere with future protocol updates. :^(
 
For example, do your proposed read-write MIB object value override the NCS/SIP negotiated value? Or vice versa?
 
-- Rich, ordinary cable guy, Comcast
-----Original Message-----
From: ipcdn-bounces at ietf.org [mailto:ipcdn-bounces at ietf.org] On Behalf Of Freyman Phillip-FPF300
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 2:07 PM
To: 'ipcdn at ietf.org'; 'sumanth at cablelabs.com'
Subject: [ipcdn] IETF NCS Sig MIB Gain (loss) plan and tone Levels

Colleagues,

 

This is a proposal to establish the Transmit and Receive gain (loss) plan parameters in the SigMIB to provide a solution to the setting of supervisory tone levels at the a-b termination points and it also provides an intelligent approach to future migration of a dynamic gain (loss) plan based on the connection requirements.

 

The first point to consider in this proposal is when the MTA passes in band signaling tones.  Per CableLabs and ETSI these tones are passed to the POTS a-b (T/R) termination points through signal paths that apply a known loss.  This is usually implemented in the POTS SLIC circuitry either with fixed loss devices or provisioned by the vendor/operators.

 

However, when directed by the Call Agent the MTA may generate the supervisory tones locally.  The same loss plan specifications per CableLabs and ETSI for in band signaling are assumed to still be active when the tones are locally generated.  Therefore it is necessary for the internal supervisory tone generator to compensate for the analog gain (loss) in the MTA (Typically in the POTS SLIC circuitry) to achieve the desired level at the a-b (T/R) termination point.  While this gain (loss) may be known to a vendor during manufacture, the second consideration in this proposal suggests that this gain (loss) may be required to be changed based on far end (analog loop) connection characteristics that change depending on the actual far end connection point.

 

While CableLabs PKT-SP-EMTS-PRIMARY-I01-001128 Clause 8.4.4 and Telcodia GR-909-CORE R5-17 guildance suggest a 2 dB loss plan default setting, there is also guildance in GR-909-CORE R4-134 referencing ANSI T1.401-1988 Figure 24 that DTMF levels may be as high as +4 dBm under low loop current conditions.  Per Telcordia GR-506-CORE Clause 15.1.5, the DTMF receiver acceptance levels must be greater than -25 dBm and less than 0 dBm.  Considering a + 4dBm DTMF level applied to a 2 dB loss plan would resulting a DTMF PCM coding level greater than the GR-506-CORE guidance of 0 dBm maximum for the DTMF detector.  The setting of the default value to -4 dB gain, ensures proper DTMF signal quality for proper detection and is also consistent with Telcordia GR-909-CORE which references TR-NWT-000057 for parameter settings and where 6.1.8 DLC System Loss O-11 suggests a DLC transmission path loss in each direction o the RT line unit should be 4 dB +/-2 dB (- 4 dB gain). 

 

Guidance in TIA/EIA TSB122-A and ETSI ES 202 020 further offers the need to adjust the gain (loss) plan based on if a given MTA is attempting a connection to one of several analog POTS termination points.  In reviewing these documents if one considers the MTA as the referenced ONU unit, various connection cases can be made (ONU to OPS, DGS, WAN, DAL, FXO, FXD, or ATT or these terminations back to the ONU) where the recommended gain (loss) plan per connection vary between 0 dB and 9 dB in loss or in some cases 3 dB of gain.

 

While it is recognized that current standard connection establishment protocols (NCS, SIP) do not support dynamic gain (loss) plan negotiation or assignment at this time, it should be recognized that by establishing the MIB now will enable future protocol updates to improve the end user experience.

 

Finally, a text enhancement is proposed to clarify the pktcSigDevToneDbLevel tone level setting measurement with respect to complex tones (tones sometimes consisting of more than one frequency).

 

Respectfully,

 

Phillip Freyman

Distinguished Member of the Technical Staff

Motorola Connected Home Solutions (formally BCS)

 
==========================================================================================================================


   pktcNcsEndPntConfigTxGain                  Integer32, 

       pktcNcsEndPntConfigRxGain                  Integer32 

 

   pktcNcsEndPntConfigTxGain    OBJECT-TYPE 

       SYNTAX       Integer32

       UNITS        "dB" 

       MAX-ACCESS   read-write

       STATUS       current 

       DESCRIPTION 

           "The per line transmitter (A/D) gain.  A positive number reflects a signal gain, a negative number reflects a signal loss.  This Object may provision the gain or it may be used to document a non-provisionable gain between the telco (POTS) a-b (T/R) terminals and the analog codec maximum PCM coding limit (PCM maximum coding limit). 

 

Based on the default G.711 Vocoder maximum of 3.14 or 3.17 dBm the -4 dB gain default provides Vocoder coding protection against TE maximum signals while also providing an initial loss to minimize analog signal echo. 

       DEFVAL { -4 } 

       ::= { pktcNcsEndPntConfigEntry 42 } 

   

 


 

   pktcNcsEndPntConfigRxGain    OBJECT-TYPE 

       SYNTAX       Integer32

       UNITS        "dB" 

       MAX-ACCESS   read-write 

       STATUS       current 

       DESCRIPTION 

           "The per line receiver (D/A) gain. A positive number reflects a signal gain, a negative number reflects a signal loss.  This object may provision the gain or it may be used to document a non-provisionable gain for use with the pktcSigDevToneDbLevel Object to set the desired level at the a-b (T/R) terminals. 

 

Based on the default G.711 Vocoder maximum of 3.14 or 3.17 dBm the -4 dB gain default provides a maximum analog signal level at the a-b (T/R) termination point. It should be noted that ETSI TS 101 909-4 provides guidance of 11 dB loss (-11 dB gain) and based on this reference a DEFVAL { -11 } in international markets may be considered. 

       DEFVAL { -4 } 

       ::= { pktcNcsEndPntConfigEntry 43 } 

   


pktcSigDevToneDbLevel    OBJECT-TYPE

       SYNTAX       TenthdBm (-250..-30)

       UNITS        "dBm" 

       MAX-ACCESS   read-write 

       STATUS       current 

       DESCRIPTION 

           "This is the decibel level for each analog signal (tone) that is locally generated (verses in band supervisory tones) and sourced to the a-b terminals (TE connection point).  Per the PktcSigDevToneEntry this DbLevel represents the level required for each tone where each tone may consist of multiple frequencies which may be summed or amplitude modulated. This Object must reflect the desired level at the Telco (POTS) a-b (T/R) terminals including the affect of the pktcNcsEndPntConfigRxGain setting on the delivered tone.  The wide range of levels for this Object is required to provide signal generator levels across the wide range of gains but does not imply the entire range is to be achievable given the range of negative values of gain (positive loss).     This Object must be set for each tone so as to generate the combined frequency level at the a-b (T/R) terminals."

       DEFVAL { -40 } 

       ::={pktcSigDevToneEntry 2 } 

 

 

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