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Re: Harald...Deans Suspension

Harald - I agree that civility is an issue, but its one that you and others violate as well. Mew included... hell I threatened to sue you personally for some of your actions. My apologies for wasting the lists time with that by the way.

As to Dean's suspension, you should have jus ignored him... rather than PR'ing him. PR'ing is an invitation for litigation and I will reiterate that the rules are adversarial and undisclosed to the Sponsor's so any disciplinary actions against their staff who are sponsored opens the IETF and YOU PERSONALLY ass well as those who participated to threat of litigation I am betting.

As to the topical control of the List itself, the rules are broken as to 'remaining on topic' and the power to determine what that topic is. The current rules are adversarial to anyoen who dissents from the WG's Chairs actions making the WG Chair the cause of damage in those matters where the WG Chair makes the determination as to what is and is not on-topic.

Simply put, on the Topic's, the issue is that you as the Group Leader or WG Chair DONT OWN THE EFFORTS OF THE GROUP. They belong to the IETF and those sponsors who are paying for that time so it is inapporpriate for anyone to say what is and is not on topic as long as the the people who are participating retain any rights to their own words.

Jorge will probably tell you this is true offline too I bet, but your preventing others from participating in a technical manner, even if you disagree with their participation is a tortuous interferrance with their Sponsor's Operations and I believe opens not only the IETF but you personally and more importantly, you sponsor's... or those supporting those actions, including their sponsors. Hell you never notify the Sponsor's of any disiplinary actions against their representitive and this is a serious issue I believe.

No Harald, this needs to change... and Deans suspension may be the straw that breaks the camel's back. I suggest that the PR policy and control needs to be reviewed and in that eliminated

Todd Glassey


----- Original Message ----- From: "Harald Alvestrand" <harald at alvestrand.no>
To: "TS Glassey" <tglassey at earthlink.net>
Cc: <ipr-wg at ietf.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 11:23 PM
Subject: Re: Harald...Deans Suspension


TS Glassey skrev:
Harald - I understand that you object to Deans (and my) views and politics but silcensikng dissenting opinions becuase you are offended at the effort of having to ignore them is pretty petty. Its also pretty common for the IETF it appears since you personally did this to me as well.

The views of the participants are irrelevant to them being suspended (or
not).
The criteria for being allowed to speak on an IETF list are (basically)
civility, and staying on topic.
I suggest that it is not in the IETF's best interests to continue with the PR process and propose formally rescinding it and terminating the suspensions prior to the matter escalating to a place that's painful and wasteful for all concerned.

The proper place to discuss the IETF's PR-action policy is on the IETF list. 
Todd Glassey

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