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Re: [Trustees] IETF Trust Decision on "Legal Provisions for IETF Documents" (dated October 16, 2008)



Simon,

On Nov 14, 2008, at 4:26 AM, Simon Josefsson wrote:

Ray Pelletier <rpelletier at isoc.org> writes:

Simon,

As to the Code Components list.  The Policy document points to
http://trustee.ietf.org/policyandprocedures.html
for the location of the List.

Ray,

The document you posted in this thread points to another URL:

4.     License to Code Components.

      a.  Definition. IETF Contributions and IETF Documents often
      include components intended to be directly processed by a
      computer (“Code Components”). A list of common Code Components
      can be found at
      http://trustee.ietf.org/docs/Code_Components_List_8-12-08.txt .

This is not what I am seeing.  I get:
4. License to Code Components.
a. Definition. IETF Contributions and IETF Documents often include components intended to be directly processed by a computer (“Code Components”). A list of common Code Components can be found at http://trustee.ietf.org/policyandprocedures.html .



Generally, the PDF the Trustees agreed to (according to your initial
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From: Ray Pelletier <rpelletier at isoc.org>
To: Simon Josefsson <simon at josefsson.org>
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Subject: Re: [Trustees] IETF Trust Decision on "Legal Provisions for IETF
	Documents" (dated October 16, 2008)
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 04:53:08 -0500
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Simon,

On Nov 14, 2008, at 4:26 AM, Simon Josefsson wrote:

Ray Pelletier <rpelletier at isoc.org> writes:

Simon,

As to the Code Components list.  The Policy document points to
http://trustee.ietf.org/policyandprocedures.html
for the location of the List.

Ray,

The document you posted in this thread points to another URL:

4.     License to Code Components.

      a.  Definition. IETF Contributions and IETF Documents often
      include components intended to be directly processed by a
      computer (“Code Components”). A list of common Code Components
      can be found at
      http://trustee.ietf.org/docs/Code_Components_List_8-12-08.txt .

This is not what I am seeing.  I get:
4. License to Code Components.
a. Definition. IETF Contributions and IETF Documents often include components intended to be directly processed by a computer (“Code Components”). A list of common Code Components can be found at http://trustee.ietf.org/policyandprocedures.html .



Generally, the PDF the Trustees agreed to (according to your initial
post in thit in this thread) is not the document that is currently available
from http://trustee.ietf.org/docs/IETF-Trust-License-Policy.pdf

This is the current version.



That PDF on the web site is attached below for archival. For reference
it has this SHA-1 checksum:

2e2b1b5cf1a5b342c46be9b313ee6d054063a827 IETF-Trust-License- Policy.pdf

The changes between the two documents include:

* Effective Date added

* URL for code components changed

* Copyright notices changed from:

  Copyright (c) <YEAR>, IETF Trust and the persons identified as its
  authors. All rights reserved.

into


  Copyright (c) [insert year] IETF Trust and the persons identified as
  the document authors. All rights reserved.

There may be other changes too, it is difficult to review changes
between PDF documents.

It is true that those items were changed in the approved version.


The copyright notice change appears unfortunate: not all IETF
Contributions are documents. This seems like a potentially significant
change.

This may be a valid point and needs some exploration. Could you elaborate?



Did all Trustees agree to make this change?  In other words: which
document did the Trustees actually approve?


There is a link there labelled IETF Legal Provisions for IETF
Documents & Code Components List pointing to:
http://trustee.ietf.org/license-info/

That has a link there labelled Examples of common Code Components
which may be found in IETF Documents with a link to:
http://trustee.ietf.org/docs/Code-Components-List.txt

Using the term 'Examples' here is inappropriate.

RFC 5377 has requested that the Trust maintain a list of RFC components
that will be considered code.  As far as I read RFC 5377, the list
maintained by the Trust is normative at any single point of time, and
the content of the list has legal implications.  It is not an "example
list".

Good point.  We will review.



I think you are suggesting that there should be an archive maintained
of old Code Component lists.  If so, I agree.

My point was to publicly archive the code component list at the date of
publication.

Correct.


However, I agree that publicly archiving old code component lists too is
useful.

OK


I expect they would be accessible from Archive of Obsolete Policies
and Procedures at  http://trustee.ietf.org/license-info/

I think you are also suggesting we should post
Code_Components_List_8-12-08.txt and have it accessible from there.

Do I have this correct?

No, here is what I suggest:

1) Make the content of
  http://trustee.ietf.org/docs/Code-Components-List.txt be the content
  of http://trustee.ietf.org/docs/Code_Components_List_8-12-08.txt.

  This avoids the unfortunate use of the term 'Example' in the list
  itself.

I see that.


  The latter list is more appropriate for another reason: it was the
  latter list that was approved by the Trustees according to your
  initial post in this thread.

Could you point me to what you believe to be my initial post in this thread?


2) Change text 'Examples of common' into 'Common' on
  http://trustee.ietf.org/license-info/

Understood.


3) Decide which version of the document is the official one, and please
  also post the final document to this list.  The decision seems to be
  which copyright notice to use: the one the trustees approved
  (according to your post) or the one currently available from the
  trustee.ietf.org site.
Understood.

Ray



/Simon


Ray

On Nov 12, 2008, at 2:58 AM, Simon Josefsson wrote:

"Ed Juskevicius" <edj at nortel.com> writes:

This message is an announce the IETF Trustees have reached
consensus on
a policy entitled "Legal Provisions Relating to IETF Documents".

Congratulations!  And thanks for posting the final documents.

To make sure we also archive the Code Components List, which is linked
from by the Legal Provisions, and make that available for easy
reference
(via the mailing list archive) I retrieved the file today. I used the
URL from the PDF you posted.  SHA-1 hash as below.

mocca:~$ wget -q http://trustee.ietf.org/docs/Code_Components_List_8-12-08.txt
jas at mocca:~$ sha1sum Code_Components_List_8-12-08.txt
9dbc3bc95964c4f506630d2ff7e20ae02ccced2a
Code_Components_List_8-12-08.txt
jas at mocca:~$

The Trustee's web pages links to another Code Components list from
<http://trustee.ietf.org/license-info/>. I'm including SHA-1 hash of
that file and attaches it as well.  The content appears to be the
same,
but it uses different formatting. It is not clear to me which is the
canonical source.

jas at mocca:~$ wget -q http://trustee.ietf.org/docs/Code-Components-List.txt
jas at mocca:~$ sha1sum Code-Components-List.txt
d48d740ce99a322c00e28865f4a76213b377caed  Code-Components-List.txt
jas at mocca:~$

/Simon
o ABNF definitions
o ASN.1 modules
o ASN.1 structures
o Management Information Base (MIB) modules
o TLS presentation syntax
o eXternal Data Representation (XDR)
o Extensible Markup Language (XML) Schemas
o XML DTDs
o XML RelaxNG definitions
o tables of values
o classical programming codeExamples of common Code Components which
may be found in IETF Contributions and IETF Documents:


o ABNF definitions

o ASN.1 modules

o ASN.1 structures

o Management Information Base (MIB) modules

o TLS presentation syntax

o eXternal Data Representation (XDR)

o Extensible Markup Language (XML) Schemas

o XML DTDs

o XML RelaxNG definitions

o tables of values

o classical programming code


_______________________________________________
Trustees mailing list
Trustees at ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/trustees
<IETF-Trust-License-Policy.pdf>

_______________________________________________
Ipr-wg mailing list
Ipr-wg at ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipr-wg


s thread) is not the document that is currently available
from http://trustee.ietf.org/docs/IETF-Trust-License-Policy.pdf

This is the current version.



That PDF on the web site is attached below for archival. For reference
it has this SHA-1 checksum:

2e2b1b5cf1a5b342c46be9b313ee6d054063a827 IETF-Trust-License- Policy.pdf

The changes between the two documents include:

* Effective Date added

* URL for code components changed

* Copyright notices changed from:

  Copyright (c) <YEAR>, IETF Trust and the persons identified as its
  authors. All rights reserved.

into


  Copyright (c) [insert year] IETF Trust and the persons identified as
  the document authors. All rights reserved.

There may be other changes too, it is difficult to review changes
between PDF documents.

It is true that those items were changed in the approved version.


The copyright notice change appears unfortunate: not all IETF
Contributions are documents. This seems like a potentially significant
change.

This may be a valid point and needs some exploration. Could you elaborate?



Did all Trustees agree to make this change?  In other words: which
document did the Trustees actually approve?


There is a link there labelled IETF Legal Provisions for IETF
Documents & Code Components List pointing to:
http://trustee.ietf.org/license-info/

That has a link there labelled Examples of common Code Components
which may be found in IETF Documents with a link to:
http://trustee.ietf.org/docs/Code-Components-List.txt

Using the term 'Examples' here is inappropriate.

RFC 5377 has requested that the Trust maintain a list of RFC components
that will be considered code.  As far as I read RFC 5377, the list
maintained by the Trust is normative at any single point of time, and
the content of the list has legal implications.  It is not an "example
list".

Good point.  We will review.



I think you are suggesting that there should be an archive maintained
of old Code Component lists.  If so, I agree.

My point was to publicly archive the code component list at the date of
publication.

Correct.


However, I agree that publicly archiving old code component lists too is
useful.

OK


I expect they would be accessible from Archive of Obsolete Policies
and Procedures at  http://trustee.ietf.org/license-info/

I think you are also suggesting we should post
Code_Components_List_8-12-08.txt and have it accessible from there.

Do I have this correct?

No, here is what I suggest:

1) Make the content of
  http://trustee.ietf.org/docs/Code-Components-List.txt be the content
  of http://trustee.ietf.org/docs/Code_Components_List_8-12-08.txt.

  This avoids the unfortunate use of the term 'Example' in the list
  itself.

I see that.


  The latter list is more appropriate for another reason: it was the
  latter list that was approved by the Trustees according to your
  initial post in this thread.

Could you point me to what you believe to be my initial post in this thread?


2) Change text 'Examples of common' into 'Common' on
  http://trustee.ietf.org/license-info/

Understood.


3) Decide which version of the document is the official one, and please
  also post the final document to this list.  The decision seems to be
  which copyright notice to use: the one the trustees approved
  (according to your post) or the one currently available from the
  trustee.ietf.org site.
Understood.

Ray



/Simon


Ray

On Nov 12, 2008, at 2:58 AM, Simon Josefsson wrote:

"Ed Juskevicius" <edj at nortel.com> writes:

This message is an announce the IETF Trustees have reached
consensus on
a policy entitled "Legal Provisions Relating to IETF Documents".

Congratulations!  And thanks for posting the final documents.

To make sure we also archive the Code Components List, which is linked
from by the Legal Provisions, and make that available for easy
reference
(via the mailing list archive) I retrieved the file today. I used the
URL from the PDF you posted.  SHA-1 hash as below.

mocca:~$ wget -q http://trustee.ietf.org/docs/Code_Components_List_8-12-08.txt
jas at mocca:~$ sha1sum Code_Components_List_8-12-08.txt
9dbc3bc95964c4f506630d2ff7e20ae02ccced2a
Code_Components_List_8-12-08.txt
jas at mocca:~$

The Trustee's web pages links to another Code Components list from
<http://trustee.ietf.org/license-info/>. I'm including SHA-1 hash of
that file and attaches it as well.  The content appears to be the
same,
but it uses different formatting. It is not clear to me which is the
canonical source.

jas at mocca:~$ wget -q http://trustee.ietf.org/docs/Code-Components-List.txt
jas at mocca:~$ sha1sum Code-Components-List.txt
d48d740ce99a322c00e28865f4a76213b377caed  Code-Components-List.txt
jas at mocca:~$

/Simon
o ABNF definitions
o ASN.1 modules
o ASN.1 structures
o Management Information Base (MIB) modules
o TLS presentation syntax
o eXternal Data Representation (XDR)
o Extensible Markup Language (XML) Schemas
o XML DTDs
o XML RelaxNG definitions
o tables of values
o classical programming codeExamples of common Code Components which
may be found in IETF Contributions and IETF Documents:


o ABNF definitions

o ASN.1 modules

o ASN.1 structures

o Management Information Base (MIB) modules

o TLS presentation syntax

o eXternal Data Representation (XDR)

o Extensible Markup Language (XML) Schemas

o XML DTDs

o XML RelaxNG definitions

o tables of values

o classical programming code


_______________________________________________
Trustees mailing list
Trustees at ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/trustees
<IETF-Trust-License-Policy.pdf>

_______________________________________________
Ipr-wg mailing list
Ipr-wg at ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipr-wg