This is a real improvement. But in terms of results, it appears that there is no real difference in guidance in having the Suppress_Script field, and having nothing. So it is unclear why the 'Suppress_Script' is needed. >1. Script subtags listed in the 'Suppress_Script' field SHOULD NOT be used to form language tags unless they add specific information to the language tag required by an application. >3. If the script of the content matches neither field (or the fields are both unpopulated), the script subtag SHOULD NOT be used to form language tags for that language unless it adds specific information to the language tag which is required by the application. >If the script of the content matches neither field... This doesn't seem right. Take: Subtag: sr Require_Script: Cyrl, Latn If I have data in sr-Kana, I really should tag it as such -- I don't want it matching sr-Maya, etc. ===== So, based on the results you describe, this could be simplified down to one field, Suppress_Script, and two rules. 1. Script subtags listed in the 'Suppress_Script' field SHOULD NOT be used to form language tags unless they add specific information to the language tag required by an application. 2. Script subtags not listed in the 'Suppress_Script' field SHOULD always be used to form language tags when the script used by the content being identified matches the script unless there is a specific reason to omit the script subtag in the application. So A. If the Suppress_Script is Latn, then en-Latn becomes en, while en-Cyrl stays as is B. If there is no Suppress_Script (say for zh), then zh-Hant, zh-Hans, zh-Cyrl, (and everything else) stay as is. Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Addison Phillips" <addison.phillips at quest.com> To: "Addison Phillips" <addison.phillips at quest.com>; "Randy Presuhn" <randy_presuhn at mindspring.com>; <ltru at ietf.org> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 12:26 Subject: RE: [Ltru] Re: Proposed Text for Moving Forward One more thought. Maybe we're trying to fix this the wrong way. Solutions that rely on counting the number of script fields produce problems because what you do is unstable and based on how many times a language has had a script registered. Instead, we should create fields that exactly match what you do with them. Subtag: en Suppress_Script: Latn Subtag: sr Require_Script: Cyrl, Latn Subtag: got Suppress_Script: Latn, Goth Comment: only an example With these rules: 1. Script subtags listed in the 'Suppress_Script' field SHOULD NOT be used to form language tags unless they add specific information to the language tag required by an application. 2. Script subtags listed in the 'Require_Script' field SHOULD always be used to form language tags when the script used by the content being identified matches the script unless there is a specific reason to omit the script subtag in the application. 3. If the script of the content matches neither field (or the fields are both unpopulated), the script subtag SHOULD NOT be used to form language tags for that language unless it adds specific information to the language tag which is required by the application. Suppress_Script is NOT guaranteed to be stable (values may be removed). Require_Script IS guaranteed to be stable (values can be added only). The two fields are mutually exclusive. Addison P. Phillips Globalization Architect, Quest Software Chair, W3C Internationalization Core Working Group Internationalization is not a feature. It is an architecture. > -----Original Message----- > From: ltru-bounces at lists.ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces at lists.ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Addison Phillips > Sent: vendredi 15 avril 2005 10:11 > To: Randy Presuhn; ltru at ietf.org > Subject: RE: [Ltru] Re: Proposed Text for Moving Forward > > I agree that the Gothic example might not be obvious, this would be a good > place to put a comment into the registry. > > It might be useful to actually distinguish between processing language and > content language (metadata). For example, one might use "got-Latn" and > "got-Goth" on <p> elements in an XHMTL document so that appropriate fonts > can by applied to each in a stylesheet and still use "got" (meaning "got- > Latn") in the <meta> element or in external references to the document. > See: http://www.w3.org/TR/i18n-html-tech-lang/#ri20030510.102829377, which > helped form my thinking about this. > > I don't think that script associations need to pass an obviousness test. > But the temptation to register every script a language has ever been > written in should be guarded against since it will cause a lot of texts to > pick up "SHOULD" when they really should not. Perhaps having separate > fields (default and associated/expected) would help this, allowing > promiscuous registration of associated scripts. > > In that case, it is: > > 0*1[default_script] = SHOULD NOT > 2*[default_script] = SHOULD always > [associated_script] = informational list of additional scripts??? > > Comments? > > Addison > > Addison P. Phillips > Globalization Architect, Quest Software > Chair, W3C Internationalization Core Working Group > > Internationalization is not a feature. > It is an architecture. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ltru-bounces at lists.ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces at lists.ietf.org] > On > > Behalf Of Randy Presuhn > > Sent: jeudi 14 avril 2005 19:32 > > To: ltru at ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [Ltru] Re: Proposed Text for Moving Forward > > > > Hi - > > > > > From: "Addison Phillips" <addison.phillips at quest.com> > > > To: "Frank Ellermann" <nobody at xyzzy.claranet.de>; <ltru at ietf.org> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 4:48 PM > > > Subject: RE: [Ltru] Re: Proposed Text for Moving Forward > > ... > > > Perhaps the rules should be: > > > > > > 1. If the primary language has no associated script, > > > you SHOULD NOT use a script subtag > > > unless it adds distinguishing information for that context. > > > > > > 2. If the primary language has a single associated script > > > and the content uses that script, > > > you SHOULD NOT use the script subtag (unless etc.). > > > > > > 3. If the primary language has two or more associated scripts > > > and the content uses one of them, > > > you SHOULD use the script subtag (unless it is harmful to do so). > > > > > > 4. If the primary language has any number of associated scripts, > > > but the content uses a different script, > > > you SHOULD use the script subtag (unless it is harmful to do so). > > > > To get the desired results for Gothic, (no subtag for Gothic transcribed > > into latin alphabet, subtag required if using the historical Gothic > > alphabet) > > I think this would mean that the entry for Gothic could not identify > > Gothic > > as an associated script, and that the associated script (if any) would > be > > latin. I guess this works, but I'd classify it as "obvious only if > > previously > > understood." > > > > Randy > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ltru mailing list > > Ltru at lists.ietf.org > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > > > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru at lists.ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru at lists.ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru at lists.ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru
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