Re: [Ltru] [psg.com #1033] FW: tags for written or spoken content, was Swiss german, spoken

["Randy Presuhn" <randy_presuhn at mindspring.com>]

Hi -

As co-chair:

For now, rather than treating this as a re-opening of issue #999,
let's handle this in the context of #1033.  If we find that whatever
our resolution for #1033 requires us to revisit issue #999, we can
do so then.  Given the amount of discussion that this question
engendered on the ietf-languages list, I want to make sure that as
a WG we are comfortable with our resolution of #1033.  Furthermore,
given the pain and anguish needed to get to a rough consensus on
#999, I do not want to re-open it unless it turns out our underlying
assumptions were seriously flawed.  So let's hash out #1033, and
then see whether we really need to re-open #999.

Randy, ltru co-chair

> From: "McDonald, Ira" <imcdonald at sharplabs.com>
> To: <ltru at ietf.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2005 10:14 AM
> Subject: [Ltru] FW: tags for written or spoken content, was Swiss german,spoken
>
> Hi,
>
> Many people may have seen this note from Tex Texin to the
> IETF Languages list, but I cross-post it here, because it
> points out a fundamental IETF last call vulnerability for
> the Language Subtag Registry, to whit, that the _entire_
> justification for shoehorning 'script' between 'language'
> and 'region' is the overwhelming focus on traditional
> uses of language tags for _written_ content.
>
> The entire (unloved) "Suppress-Script" stuff attempts to
> minimize the damage in the real world (now and in the
> indefinite future) of the 'script' interloper.
>
> A much cleaner solution remains to push 'script' back where
> it belongs in medium-neutral language tags --> after the
> 'region' code.
>
> And I think that bending 'script' to include spoken (as
> Randy speculated somewhere recently?) is just awful.
>
> Cheers,
> - Ira
>
> Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
> Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
> PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI  49839
> phone: +1-906-494-2434
> email: imcdonald at sharplabs.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ietf-languages-bounces at alvestrand.no
> [mailto:ietf-languages-bounces at alvestrand.no]On Behalf Of Tex Texin
> Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 8:44 PM
> To: Michael Everson
> Cc: ietf-languages at iana.org
> Subject: tags for written or spoken content, was Swiss german, spoken
>
>
>
>
> Michael Everson wrote:
>
> > The tags with we are concerned assume some sort of orthography.
>
>
>
> Well, the tendency has been to associate tags with writing since so much
> of computer content is written, and so it is mostly written material
> that software developers tag.
>
> However, rfc 3066 says:
>
> "The language tag always defines a language as spoken (or written,
> signed or otherwise signaled) by human beings for communication of
> information to other human beings."
>
> so orthography is not a requirement and in fact, this tendency to
> (incorrectly I believe) presume writing, is one of the reasons I
> objected to "script" being placed between language and region in
> 3066bis. As we tag more multimedia, the emphasis on writing is falsely
> placed. Unless we want to have a separate tagging system for audio...
>
> tex
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