----- Original Message ----- From: <ltru-request at ietf.org>
To: <ltru at ietf.org> Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 10:16 Subject: Ltru Digest, Vol 20, Issue 35
Send Ltru mailing list submissions to ltru at ietf.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ltru-request at ietf.org You can reach the person managing the list at ltru-owner at ietf.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Ltru digest..." Today's Topics: 1. RE: Re: Registry deltas (Peter Constable) 2. RE: Re: Registry deltas (Peter Constable) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 10:04:49 -0700 From: Peter Constable <petercon at microsoft.com> Subject: RE: [Ltru] Re: Registry deltas To: LTRU Working Group <ltru at ietf.org> Message-ID: <F8ACB1B494D9734783AAB114D0CE68FE0B24B301 at RED-MSG-52.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Definitely some of the changes below would be wrong: e.g., - “Yi, Sichuan” is an inverted form of “Sichuan Yi”- “Agta, Camarines Norte” is an inverted form of “Camarines Norte Agta”- “Malay, Ambonese” is an inverted form of “Ambonese Malay”; “Ambonese” is an alternate name, but “Malay” probably isn’t a good choice for an alternate name since that would generally be understood as Bahasa Malaysia- “Nahuatl, Highland Puebla” is an inverted form of “Highland Puebla Nahuatl”More of these are similar; a closer review would be needed to determine which of these changes would really make sense.Peter From: Mark Davis [mailto:mark.davis at icu-project.org] CHANGE TO SEMI-COLON Yi, Sichuan => Yi; Sichuan Ayta, Ambala => Ayta; Ambala Agta, Camarines Norte => Agta; Camarines Norte Ayta, Abenlen => Ayta; Abenlen Malay, Ambonese => Malay; Ambonese Adi, Galo => Adi; Galo Tibetan, Amdo => Tibetan; Amdo Amis, Nataoran => Amis; Nataoran Amuzgo, Guerrero => Amuzgo; Guerrero Arapesh, Bumbita => Arapesh; Bumbita Asmat, Casuarina Coast => Asmat; Casuarina Coast Asuriní, Xingú => Asuriní; Xingú Asmat, Yaosakor => Asmat; Yaosakor Manobo, Ata => Manobo; Ata One, Molmo => One; Molmo Gbe, Ayizo => Gbe; Ayizo Atta, Faire => Atta; Faire Nahuatl, Highland Puebla => Nahuatl; Highland Puebla Kayan, Busang => Kayan; Busang Birifor, Malba => Birifor; Malba Pahari, Mahasu => Pahari; Mahasu Bareli, Rathwi => Bareli; Rathwi Chin, Bawm => Chin; Bawm Béte, Guiberoua => Béte; Guiberoua Bété, Daloa => Bété; Daloa Bareli, Pauri => Bareli; Pauri Itneg, Banao => Itneg; Banao Sorsogon, Masbate => Sorsogon; Masbate Karen, Pa'o => Karen; Pa'o Ayta, Mag-Indi => Ayta; Mag-Indi Kanuri, Bilma => Kanuri; Bilma ... NOTEAs I was doing this, I saw the following. It may be perfectly fine, but it looks a bit suspicious, especially since there are a bunch of "Atga" entries with different modifiers. Could this be a spelling error?Agta, Mt. Iraya Mark On 10/9/06, Martin Duerst <duerst at it.aoyama.ac.jp> wrote: [co-chair hat off] At 02:22 06/10/03, Mark Davis wrote:Overall, I think inverted names are a bad idea. They are rather anglocentric, and we find that translators often do the wrong thing with them. They are also hugely inconsistent in the current registry.I think they are tolerable if (a) every single instance of a comma indicates an inverted name, and (b) all names are consistently inverted. Because of (a) one could programmatically fix the names to the correct value.I don't think creating artificial syntax rules or some kind of restricted (English) grammar for Description fields is appropriate. What I can immagine is that we use semicolons rather than commas to indicate boundaries between input from different origins. Regards, Martin. #-#-# Martin J. Du"rst, Assoc. Professor, Aoyama Gakuin University#-#-# http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp <http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp> mailto:duerst at it.aoyama.ac.jp-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/ltru/attachments/20061016/21078be7/attachment-0001.html------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 10:16:48 -0700 From: Peter Constable <petercon at microsoft.com> Subject: RE: [Ltru] Re: Registry deltas To: Peter Constable <petercon at microsoft.com>, LTRU Working Group <ltru at ietf.org> Message-ID: <F8ACB1B494D9734783AAB114D0CE68FE0B24B306 at RED-MSG-52.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"BTW, I meant to add in this discussion of inverted names and other aspects of the forms of descriptions (not registry deltas!), if there is feedback that this WG would want to send back to the ISO 639 JAC for their consideration as to changes they could make in the descriptions that would make things easier for the LSR, this is a good time to submit that as the JAC will be meeting in a couple of weeks (teleconf) to discuss various issues related to the completion of part 3 and maintenance of the various parts in relation to one another. There have been some plans to work on names (e.g. the 639-3 RA had a work item to review the names in the 639-3 draft code table to improve consistency, especially where the draft code table for part 3 doesn’t have names that are widely used, such as “Dari”).(Also, btw: seeing the problems we have with managing description fields has for the first time made me wonder if the formal overhead of ISO 11179 might not offer some benefit. I don’t know enough about 11179 to be able to answer that; it’s just a question that popped into my head.)Peter From: Peter Constable [mailto:petercon at microsoft.com] Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 10:05 AM To: LTRU Working Group Subject: RE: [Ltru] Re: Registry deltas Definitely some of the changes below would be wrong: e.g., - “Yi, Sichuan” is an inverted form of “Sichuan Yi”- “Agta, Camarines Norte” is an inverted form of “Camarines Norte Agta”- “Malay, Ambonese” is an inverted form of “Ambonese Malay”; “Ambonese” is an alternate name, but “Malay” probably isn’t a good choice for an alternate name since that would generally be understood as Bahasa Malaysia- “Nahuatl, Highland Puebla” is an inverted form of “Highland Puebla Nahuatl”More of these are similar; a closer review would be needed to determine which of these changes would really make sense.Peter From: Mark Davis [mailto:mark.davis at icu-project.org] CHANGE TO SEMI-COLON Yi, Sichuan => Yi; Sichuan Ayta, Ambala => Ayta; Ambala Agta, Camarines Norte => Agta; Camarines Norte Ayta, Abenlen => Ayta; Abenlen Malay, Ambonese => Malay; Ambonese Adi, Galo => Adi; Galo Tibetan, Amdo => Tibetan; Amdo Amis, Nataoran => Amis; Nataoran Amuzgo, Guerrero => Amuzgo; Guerrero Arapesh, Bumbita => Arapesh; Bumbita Asmat, Casuarina Coast => Asmat; Casuarina Coast Asuriní, Xingú => Asuriní; Xingú Asmat, Yaosakor => Asmat; Yaosakor Manobo, Ata => Manobo; Ata One, Molmo => One; Molmo Gbe, Ayizo => Gbe; Ayizo Atta, Faire => Atta; Faire Nahuatl, Highland Puebla => Nahuatl; Highland Puebla Kayan, Busang => Kayan; Busang Birifor, Malba => Birifor; Malba Pahari, Mahasu => Pahari; Mahasu Bareli, Rathwi => Bareli; Rathwi Chin, Bawm => Chin; Bawm Béte, Guiberoua => Béte; Guiberoua Bété, Daloa => Bété; Daloa Bareli, Pauri => Bareli; Pauri Itneg, Banao => Itneg; Banao Sorsogon, Masbate => Sorsogon; Masbate Karen, Pa'o => Karen; Pa'o Ayta, Mag-Indi => Ayta; Mag-Indi Kanuri, Bilma => Kanuri; Bilma ... NOTEAs I was doing this, I saw the following. It may be perfectly fine, but it looks a bit suspicious, especially since there are a bunch of "Atga" entries with different modifiers. Could this be a spelling error?Agta, Mt. Iraya Mark On 10/9/06, Martin Duerst <duerst at it.aoyama.ac.jp> wrote: [co-chair hat off] At 02:22 06/10/03, Mark Davis wrote:Overall, I think inverted names are a bad idea. They are rather anglocentric, and we find that translators often do the wrong thing with them. They are also hugely inconsistent in the current registry.I think they are tolerable if (a) every single instance of a comma indicates an inverted name, and (b) all names are consistently inverted. Because of (a) one could programmatically fix the names to the correct value.I don't think creating artificial syntax rules or some kind of restricted (English) grammar for Description fields is appropriate. What I can immagine is that we use semicolons rather than commas to indicate boundaries between input from different origins. Regards, Martin. #-#-# Martin J. Du"rst, Assoc. Professor, Aoyama Gakuin University#-#-# http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp <http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp> mailto:duerst at it.aoyama.ac.jp-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/ltru/attachments/20061016/bac99ead/attachment.html------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru at ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru End of Ltru Digest, Vol 20, Issue 35************************************
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