Re: [Ltru] IPA as a script [was: IPA, NSAI and ANSI]
Erkki Kolehmainen <erkki.kolehmainen@kotus.fi> Thu, 26 October 2006 15:18 UTC
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Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 18:10:57 +0300
From: Erkki Kolehmainen <erkki.kolehmainen@kotus.fi>
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To: Marion Gunn <mgunn@egt.ie>
Subject: Re: [Ltru] IPA as a script [was: IPA, NSAI and ANSI]
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Cc: TC46-L Information and Documentation Technology List <tc46-L@listserv.heanet.ie>, Sue Ellen Wright <sellenwright@gmail.com>, LTRU Working Group <ltru@ietf.org>
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I'm a little late in adding my comment, but I have quite some difficulty in understanding this. To me, IPA is but one of the surprisingly many phonetic alphabets of this world, albeit probably the most commonly used. Others include e.g. UPA (the Uralic Phonetic Alphabet) and LMA (the Swedish Landsmålsalfabetet), both of which I'm somewhat familiar with, since I've been involved in the encoding of them in the UCS/Unicode. The usage of the phonetic alphabets also has a tendency to be based on extensive cross-boundary character loans even from other scripts than the Latin script, under which they are now listed. However, it would make a lot of sense to be able to identify a text as having been written using _some_ phonetic alphabet (for which a separate script code could be used if a more suitable solution cannot be found). This could then be further identified by the code for the specific, most dominant alphabet, such as IPA, used to write the text. My point is that the IPA identification problem should not be solved by such a special treatment that it could not be applied to the other phonetic alphabets. Sincerely, Erkki I. Kolehmainen Marion Gunn wrote: > To say Ireland (NSAI) is responsible for the refusal to register IPA as > an ISO 15924 script is as unfair as it is untrue. > > I am writing to confirm that Irish users were as put out by that > negative decision as users elsewhere, and that that negative decision > was not made by NSAI. > > ISO 15924 is nominally the responsibility of ISO/TC 46, although not > under normal TC 46 control, either, and that negative decision was made > by the ISO 15924 advisory committee, currently made up as follows: > One representative of the Registration Authority: > Michael Everson, Evertype > One representative of the ISO 639-2/RA: > Randall K. Barry, Library of Congress > One representative of ISO TC37: > Håvard Hjulstad, Språk- og terminologitjenester > One representative of ISO TC46: > François Demay, Encyclopaedia Universalis > Two representatives of ISO/IEC JTC1/SC2: > Rick McGowan, Unicode Consortium > Ken Whistler, Sybase > > That AC failed to offer a cogent argument against tagging IPA in ISO > 15924 and, during a public exchange on the LTRU list, its members all > failed to address most of the points raised, for example, when Mark > Davis of International Components for Unicode pointed out that [ISO > 15924] already "incorporates variations which are essentially > orthography (Hant vs Hans), and other differences that are simply > glyphic variation (Fraktur Latin)" their answer was silence. > > The grounds for registering IPA as a script have been long since > established: it looks like a script, behaves like a script and only > requires standard ISO tagging to facilitate proper electronic script > processing. An IPA tag is urgently needed by NSAI's Irish-speaking > communities, (so I must continue pressing for it), as well as being > needed by university researchers and practical speech therapists in so > many countries that a positive decision to tag it for use needs to made > without delay, to open the door for Net searches for texts written in IPA. > > Because that particular ISO AC was set up with a built-in US majority > (4 out of 6), it is the logical responsibility of ANSI (_not_ NSAI) to > ensure that such overloading in a big country's favour not be any > excuse for refusing/delaying reasonable service requests from smaller > countries. No country, however big it is, has any right to have such > control over any international standards — however obtained, that > amount of control carries with it an equal amount of answerability for > concomitant results. > > Accordingly, I respectfully request that ANSI use its influence to to > good effect, to persuade such members of the ISO 15924 AC as it can > influence to reverse their negative decision in re registering IPA in > ISO 15924. > > FWIW, I wish to affirm that I still believe in ISO 15924's potential > quite as much as I did many years ago, when I was NSAI's sole > representative in ISO/TC 37, where I first brought its first NWI draft > to ISO/TC 37's attention (and after it was blocked in TC 37, supported > its adoption in ISO/TC 46), that I regard its inception by Michael > Everson as something very much to his credit, and that I would also > regard it as to Mr Everson's credit were he now to reverse his vote > (withdraw his opposition to registing IPA as a script). > > I hold it as a reasonable expectation that the rest would probably follow. > mg > Convener, NSAI ISO/TC 46 IG > > - - > Marion Gunn * EGTeo (Estab.1991) > 27 Páirc an Fhéithlinn, Baile an > Bhóthair, Co. Átha Cliath, Éire. > * mgunn@egt.ie * eamonn@egt.ie * > > > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru
- Re: [Ltru] IPA, NSAI and ANSI Randy Presuhn
- [Ltru] IPA, NSAI and ANSI Marion Gunn
- [Ltru] Re: IPA, NSAI and ANSI Doug Ewell
- Re: [Ltru] Re: IPA as a script Randy Presuhn
- Re: [Ltru] IPA as a script [was: IPA, NSAI and AN… Erkki Kolehmainen
- Re: [Ltru] IPA as a script [was: IPA, NSAI and AN… Jukka K. Korpela
- RE: [Ltru] IPA as a script [was: IPA, NSAI and AN… Peter Constable
- RE: [Ltru] IPA as a script [was: IPA, NSAI and AN… Peter Constable
- [Ltru] Re: IPA as a script Frank Ellermann
- Re: [Ltru] Re: IPA as a script John Cowan
- Re: [Ltru] Re: IPA as a script Randy Presuhn
- Re: [Ltru] Re: IPA as a script Addison Phillips