RE: Attracting wider participation [was: RE: Off-list RFC 3934 warning ([Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases)]
"Don Osborn" <dzo@bisharat.net> Tue, 24 April 2007 13:22 UTC
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From: Don Osborn <dzo@bisharat.net>
To: 'Misha Wolf' <Misha.Wolf@reuters.com>, 'LTRU Working Group' <ltru@ietf.org>
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Subject: RE: Attracting wider participation [was: RE: Off-list RFC 3934 warning ([Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases)]
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 09:22:33 -0400
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I understand David's point to be that there might be better outreach to increase the level of involvement of experts with a range of language expertise (and authority). To take the case of sub-Saharan African languages, I find that I am practically the only person actively trying to focus on what the implications of a lot of the discussions are for them, and what their needs might imply for the form of language tagging. Not the only person to think about it, and basically I know enough to know how little I really know, but one of the very few to consistently raise African language issues. Africa deserves better. The simple answer to invite colleagues is sometimes too simple: some African language/linguistics experts (wherever they are from or based) are clueless about language tags. One (an American professor) recently asked on behalf of colleagues who are setting up a workshop, "We don't know what is ISO-639?" Outreach is more than just getting people on the wagon to take them to the polling station (or whatever metaphor one may prefer). How can potentially interested experts be educated about the language tagging issues from the bottom up, in a succinct way, to facilitate their participation and input? They know the languages and the issues, and could add important dimensions to the discussions and decisions that we are missing. Problem is that outreach requires some effort and resources, and here, like the case with Unicode, there is no such. So, the system remains largely North American and West European. The problem with regard to Africa is a larger one. ISO published last year a short document on increasing African government capacities and involvement in ISO standards processes.* This is all ISO standards, not just language or ICT related. But as a general rule, African involvement in language and ICT standards is very low, especially taking into account LTRU, IETF-languages etc. I'm not sure what the answer is (again, the problem of lack of resources and time usually cut such discussions short), but it is an issue that shouldn't be lightly dismissed. And it does seem to be most appropriately addressed to the kind of people who are already on ltru@ietf.org . Don Osborn * International Organization for Standardization. 2006. "ISO and Africa." June 2006. http://www.iso.org/iso/en/comms-markets/developingcountries/pdf/iso_and_afri ca.pdf > -----Original Message----- > From: Misha Wolf [mailto:Misha.Wolf@reuters.com] > Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 8:29 AM > To: LTRU Working Group > Subject: OT: Attracting wider participation [was: RE: Off-list RFC 3934 > warning ([Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases)] > > Hi David, > > I'm divided as to the wisdom of replying. If this has > reached you, then the urge to do so overcame the urge > not to do so. > > It seems self-evident that if you want people who are > not currently on this list to join it in order to > participate, you should be addressing yourself to them, > rather than to the existing members of the list. You > could suggest the creation of a list not-ltru@ietf.org, > whose membership would consist of those persons who are > *not* members of the existing list. You could then use > the new forum to encourage them to join the ltru list. > > Yours transatlantically, > Misha > London, UK > > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Dalby [mailto:daviddalby@linguasphere.info] > Sent: 23 April 2007 11:52 > To: 'Marion Gunn'; 'LTRU Working Group' > Subject: RE: Off-list RFC 3934 warning ([Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special > Cases) > > Dear All, > I have refrained recently from responding to matters discussed on this > and > its parallel forum, because I have felt so out-of-place among largely > trans-Atlantic experts in the rules of program(m)ing. > Marion's humorous response is entirely appropriate and "on-topic", and > I > look forward to the day when the coding of the world's languages may be > discussed and resolved by many more linguists and by many more speakers > of > different languages from around the world. > Please forgive my intruding onto the bridge. I shall return to the > boiler-room. > Best wishes to all, > David > > This email was sent to you by Reuters, the global news and information > company. > To find out more about Reuters visit www.about.reuters.com > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, > except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of > Reuters Limited. > > Reuters Limited is part of the Reuters Group of companies, of which > Reuters Group PLC is the ultimate parent company. > Reuters Group PLC - Registered office address: The Reuters Building, > South Colonnade, Canary Wharf, London E14 5EP, United Kingdom > Registered No: 3296375 > Registered in England and Wales > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru
- [Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases Doug Ewell
- Re: [Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases Karen_Broome
- [Ltru] Language Tag Special Cases Mark Davis
- Re: [Ltru] Language Tag Special Cases Karen_Broome
- Re: [Ltru] Language Tag Special Cases Mark Davis
- RE: [Ltru] Language Tag Special Cases Kent Karlsson
- [Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases Frank Ellermann
- Re: [Ltru] Language Tag Special Cases Karen_Broome
- RE: [Ltru] Language Tag Special Cases Peter Constable
- Re: [Ltru] Language Tag Special Cases Mark Davis
- Re: [Ltru] Language Tag Special Cases John Cowan
- Re: [Ltru] Language Tag Special Cases Addison Phillips
- RE: [Ltru] Language Tag Special Cases Kent Karlsson
- [Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases Frank Ellermann
- [Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases Frank Ellermann
- [Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases Frank Ellermann
- RE: [Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases Karen_Broome
- RE: [Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases Kent Karlsson
- Re: [Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases Addison Phillips
- Re: [Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases Mark Davis
- RE: [Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases Kent Karlsson
- Re: [Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases Karen_Broome
- Re: [Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases Addison Phillips
- [Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases Frank Ellermann
- Re: [Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases Mark Davis
- RE: [Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases Kent Karlsson
- RE: [Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases Peter Constable
- [Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases Frank Ellermann
- Re: [Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases Addison Phillips
- Re: [Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases Mark Davis
- Re: [Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases John Cowan
- Re: [Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases John Cowan
- Re: [Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases John Cowan
- Re: [Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases John Cowan
- RE: [Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases Kent Karlsson
- Re: [Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases Kent Karlsson
- Re: [Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases John Cowan
- RE: [Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases Kent Karlsson
- RE: [Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases Peter Constable
- RE: [Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases Peter Constable
- RE: [Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases Kent Karlsson
- RE: [Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases Peter Constable
- RE: [Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases Kent Karlsson
- Re: [Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases Doug Ewell
- Re: [Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases Randy Presuhn
- RE: [Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases Kent Karlsson
- Re: [Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases Doug Ewell
- RE: [Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases Kent Karlsson
- RE: [Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases Peter Constable
- Re: [Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases Doug Ewell
- Re: [Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases Randy Presuhn
- [Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases McDonald, Ira
- RE: [Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases Kent Karlsson
- Re: [Ltru] Re: Language Tag Special Cases Marion Gunn
- Re: Off-list RFC 3934 warning ([Ltru] Re: Languag… Marion Gunn
- RE: Off-list RFC 3934 warning ([Ltru] Re: Languag… David Dalby
- OT: Attracting wider participation [was: RE: Off-… Misha Wolf
- [Ltru] Public RFC 3934 warning Randy Presuhn
- Re: [Ltru] Public RFC 3934 warning Marion Gunn
- RE: Attracting wider participation [was: RE: Off-… Don Osborn