Re: [Ltru] extlang or not extlang

["Debbie Garside" <debbie at ictmarketing.co.uk>]

Hi John

I can see how this situation has arisen and if it was not causing too many
problems I would probably let it slide as like you I would like to see this
RFC published.

However, the more I hear about macrolanguages and extlang the more I feel it
is important to re-visit this.  I also don't like the change in what was
purported to be a "stable" syntax.

>From what I have seen so far it pretty much seems like a dogs breakfast and,
if published as is, I don't think anyone would know how to tag
macrolanguages or their encompassed entities - we would get a mish mash of
tagging and that is not what standardization is about.  I think after all
these months it is worth delaying for a few more weeks to get it as right
and useful as we possibly can for as many end users as we can.

With a minimum of 6 people saying they would at least like to revisit the
extlang issue, how many within the teleconferences were against the
inclusion of extlang?

Do you consider there are enough people making "noise" about extlang to
revisit this?

BTW there seems to be an 8 hour delivery delay for some of my messages and
others are not being delivered at all - checked the archives and no sign of
them.  Not sure what is happening but it is quite probable that I am missing
half the conversations on the LTRU.  If I don't respond to a message I
probably haven't seen it.

Best

Debbie



> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Cowan [mailto:cowan at ccil.org]
> Sent: 10 May 2008 19:01
> To: Debbie Garside
> Cc: Karen_Broome at spe.sony.com; 'Mark Davis'; 'LTRU Working Group'
> Subject: Re: [Ltru] extlang or not extlang
>
> Debbie Garside scripsit:
>
> > I have to say that there are some strong characters in this
> forum and
> > if people are feeling intimidated and bullied this will put other
> > people off participating.
> >
> > Also, I think that for such an important issue to be decided during
> > conference calls means that there is no discussion history to fall
> > back on and this doesn't help those of us who missed the
> conference calls.
> >
> > Those of us who missed the conference calls are feeling intimidated
> > into not discussing extlang as others within this forum are
> saying it is dealt with.
> > Even those who were pro extlang are being 'bullied' into
> not mentioning it.
> > This is unacceptable.
>
> Well, here's how it looked to me.  The list was stuck, and
> the conference calls (which were publicly announced on the
> list) were an attempt to move past that stuckness.  Most of
> those who spoke on those calls were anti-extlang, with me as
> the most visible pro-extlang person.
>
> What happened?  Pro-extlang person #1 (I'm not naming names,
> because this is not a personal attack) thought the effort was
> futile, the antis would win no matter what, so I got no
> public support there.
> Pro-extlang person #2 was suddenly saying there was merit in
> both sides, and so I got no public support there either.
> Pro-extlang persons #3 and
> #4 had other priorities at the time: no fault with that,
> people *do* have other priorities.  Pro-extlang person #5
> wasn't even on the list at the time.  That left me,
> pro-extlang person #6, standing all alone.
>
> And (as I posted here) I came to realize that if I didn't
> give in, we'd never have an RFC 4646bis.  And that would be a
> tragedy.  Because what really matters is not how we tag
> Cantonese, but whether we are even able to tag Aromanian.
> What really matters is not the details of the matching
> algorithm, but whether the minority languages, the
> non-official languages, the non-commercial languages, can be
> referred to on computers on equal terms with the rest.
>
>
> Did I have to give up something I really wanted?  You bet.
> But I publicly surrendered my position, because what matters
> most to me is that we get off the pot and get this draft
> published as an official RFC, so that things like the XML
> Recommendation can be updated (actually, will update
> themselves) to accept all the tags for the long tail of
> languages we are still speaking here on planet Earth.
>
> --
> John  Cowan  http://ccil.org/~cowan   cowan at ccil.org
> 'My young friend, if you do not now, immediately and
> instantly, pull as hard as ever you can, it is my opinion
> that your acquaintance in the large-pattern leather ulster'
> (and by this he meant the Crocodile) 'will jerk you into
> yonder limpid stream before you can say Jack Robinson.'
>         --the Bi-Coloured-Python-Rock-Snake
>
>
>
>




_______________________________________________
Ltru mailing list
Ltru at ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru