Re: [Ltru] 4.6: private use subtags convey... (nothing except by prior agreement)

["Mark Davis" <mark.davis at icu-project.org>]

A slight tweek, because you still have "..[private use] subtags ... convey more information...". Peter was saying that it is the *tag* using them that conveys more information. I think that both are true, just because en-x-private conveys less info than en-AA (we know AA is meant to be a region).

Here's a suggestion

Mark

On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 10:18 AM, Phillips, Addison <addison at amazon.com> wrote:

(editor hat)

The suggested revision is "okay", but didn't convey exactly what we meant either, I think. I rewrote the paragraph and modified the example that followed (which Peter did not quote) as follows:

<t>In addition to private-use subtag sequences introduced by the singleton subtag 'x', the Language Subtag Registry provides private use subtags derived from the private use codes assigned by underlying standards. These subtags are valid for use in forming language tags and convey more information than the 'x-' private-use sequences because they are linked to the language tag's inherent structure.</t>

=>
In addition to private-use subtag sequences introduced by the singleton subtag 'x', the Language Subtag Registry provides private use subtags derived from the private use codes assigned by underlying standards. These subtags are valid for use in forming language tags; they are recommended over the 'x-' private use subtag sequences:
1. tags incorporating private use subtags convey more publicly interchangeable information than the 'x' sequences, because the subtags are linked to the language tag's inherent structure, while the 'x' sequences are completely opaque to those outside of the private-use agreement.
2. some implementations may not be able to handle 'x' sequences

<t>For example, the region subtags 'AA', 'ZZ', and in the ranges 'QM'-'QZ' and 'XA'-'XZ' (derived from the ISO 3166-1 private use codes) can be used to form a language tag. A tag such as "zh-Hans-XQ" conveys a great deal of public, interchangeable information about the language material (that it is Chinese in the simplified Chinese script and is suitable for some geographic region 'XQ'). While the precise geographic region is not known outside of private agreement, the tag conveys far more information than an opaque tag such as "x-somelang" or even "zh-Hans-x-xq" (where the 'xq' subtag's meaning is entirely ambiguous).</t>

=> entirely opaque.

Addison Phillips
Globalization Architect -- Lab126

Internationalization is not a feature.
It is an architecture.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ltru-bounces at ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces at ietf.org] On
> Behalf Of Peter Constable
> Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 10:15 PM
> To: LTRU Working Group
> Subject: [Ltru] 4.6: private use subtags convey... (nothing except
> by prior agreement)
>
> The current draft has this in Section 4.6:
>
> ------------
> Subtags defined in the IANA registry as having a specific private
> use meaning convey more information that a purely private use tag
> prefixed by the singleton subtag 'x'.
> ------------
>
> Strictly speaking, that's not true: a private-use *subtag* conveys
> *no* information (except by private convention -- which is clearly
> not assumed in this statement), and so cannot convey more
> information than anything else.
>
> Suggested revision:
>
> ------------
> Tags created using subtags defined in the IANA registry as having a
> specific private use meaning can convey more information that a
> purely private use tag prefixed by the singleton subtag 'x'.
> ------------
>
>
>
> Also, this wording is a bit problematic:
>
> ------------
> However, in some cases content tagged with private use subtags MAY
> interact with other systems in a different and possibly unsuitable
> manner compared to tags that use opaque, privately defined subtags,
> so the choice of the best approach sometimes depends on the
> particular domain in question.
> ------------
>
> Tags that use private-use subtags vs. tags that use opaque,
> privately-defined subtags? Those sound the same.
>
> Suggested revision:
>
> ------------
> However, in some cases content tagged with private-use subtags MAY
> interact with other systems in a different and possibly unsuitable
> manner compared to tags that use opaque, private-use subtag
> sequences prefixed by 'x', so the choice of the best approach
> sometimes depends on the particular domain in question.
> ------------
>
>
> Peter
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