Re: [Ltru] [OT] Re: UNGEGN definitions and UNICODe Glossary of terms

[Peter Constable <petercon at microsoft.com>]

From: ltru-bounces at ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces at ietf.org] On Behalf Of Lang Gérard

> 2.  I have no problem to agree with your opinion about
> translation...

> 2.1 But I must insist that we are not here (langue/langage)
> with a translation problem, because when ISO TC 37 (then
> " Terminology (principles and coordination"), that is co-
> responsible with ISO TC 46 ("Information and Documentation")
> of the series ISO 639 [and i am the liaison officer from ISO
> TC 46 to ISDO TC 37], had a plenary meeting in Paris in
> 2004-08-23/27 I made an short remark on this point that
> "langue" did not cover "Sign languages" and nobody refuted
> this remark or said that the original intent was "langage".

There is no question that the intent of ISO TC 37 SC 2 or the ISO 639-RA/JAC that signed languages are considered in scope for ISO 639. This is explicitly clear in ISO 639-3, clause 4.2.1:

"In this part of ISO 639, most identifiers are assumed to denote distinct individual languages. Furthermore, it is
a goal for this part of ISO 639 to provide an identifier for every distinct human language that has been
documented, whether living or extinct, and whether its primary modality is spoken, written or signed."

Also, ISO/DIS 639-4 makes clear that "language" is considered any mode of linguistic expression:

"3.6
language
systematic use of sounds, characters, symbols or signs to express or communicate meaning or a message"

"9.2.2.2 Linguistic Information
⎯ mode of communication = [spoken or written or signed]; "



> 2.2 In fact, I am completely prepared to admit that "political
> correctness" has gradually pushed "scientific progress" and
> ISO 639/RA-JAC to recognize  "Sign languages", that were not
> initially intended to be covered,  as possible entries inside
> ISO 639-3 and ISO 639-5 and pseudo-linguistic entities.

This is not just a matter of political correctness. Signed languages are languages.


Peter
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