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Re: [MEXT] [Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-perkins-mext-4283mnids-00]

To: "charliep at computer.org" <charliep at computer.org>
Subject: Re: [MEXT] [Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-perkins-mext-4283mnids-00]
From: "Laganier, Julien" <julienl at qualcomm.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 10:11:46 -0700
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Thread-topic: [MEXT] [Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-perkins-mext-4283mnids-00]

Hello Charlie,

With my initial comment I meant I wasn't sure 3GPP is interested in using a new MNID subtype for IMSI.

In my view having a MNID subtype reserved for IMSI it is as simple as 1) writing a draft (which you did) and 2) having 3GPP reference that draft so that here in the IETF it's clear what their intent is and we can move forward and get the draft published as an RFC. 

Hope that clarifies.

--julien

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charles E. Perkins [mailto:charliep at computer.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 10:06 AM
> To: Laganier, Julien
> Cc: mext
> Subject: Re: [MEXT] [Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-perkins-
> mext-4283mnids-00]
> 
> 
> Hello Julien,
> 
> Well, if I were a 3GPP standardization representative,
> and I had the choices of (a) submitting yet another
> standards document to an external SDO and attending
> 3 _more_ meetings per year at the additional cost of
> months and many thousands of dollars or (b) encoding
> my identifier as an NAI, I think the choice would be
> obvious.
> 
> Of course, both choices are "available".
> 
> Regarding:
> 
> >  As to the lack of pressure on the MNID subtype registry, it
> >  is not IMHO a reason to reserve values
> 
> of course we agree.  But I was responding to your
> earlier suggestion about whether it was advisable
> to use the type space.
> 
> Regarding:
> 
> > it is not IMHO a reason to reserve values before a clear
> > requirement has been expressed, which doesn't seem to be
> > the case yet.
> 
> As pointed out above, I think that as long as the identifiers
> of the appropriate type cannot be easily used, we will
> continue to see creative applications of the only identifier
> type that _is_ easily able to be used -- namely, the NAI.
> 
> Regards,
> Charlie P.
> 
> 
> 
> Laganier, Julien wrote:
> > The IANA considerations of RFC 4283 states:
> >
> >    In addition, IANA has created a new namespace for the subtype
> field
> >    of the Mobile Node Identifier option.  The currently allocated
> values
> >    are as follows:
> >
> >    NAI (defined in [RFC4282]).
> >
> >    New values for this namespace can be allocated using Standards
> Action
> >    [RFC2434].
> >
> > So I do not see what restriction made encoding the IMSI as an NAI the
> only choice available. If 3GPP had wanted to encode an MNID subtype to
> encode the IMSI, they could have get it allocated via the appropriate
> channel.
> >
> > As to the lack of pressure on the MNID subtype registry, it is not
> IMHO a reason to reserve values before a clear requirement has been
> expressed, which doesn't seem to be the case yet. Until then...
> >
> > --julien
> >
> > Charles E. Perkins
> >> Hello Julien,
> >>
> >> Your comment actually applies to every type of
> >> identifier.  Even MAC addresses could be written
> >> as NAIs:
> >> 	AB_CD_EF_00_11_22 at ieeeMACaddresses.org
> >> Or:
> >> 	MAC_ADDRESS_AB_CD_EF_00_11_22 at HomeAgent.org
> >> depending on preferneces for AAA administration.
> >>
> >> I'd give 5 to 1 odds that the use of NAI as you
> >> mentioned by 3GPP and others was predicated on
> >> the restriction that it was the only choice
> >> available.
> >>
> >> It seems to me that, going into the future, we
> >> can do better.  And there is absolutely no pressure
> >> evident today on the MNID type registry.
> >>
> >> Nearer term, I think the availability of appropriate
> >> MNID types might be valuable for the work that is
> >> ongoing for an alternate security mechanism for
> >> MIPv6.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Charlie P.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Laganier, Julien wrote:
> >>> Hello Charlie,
> >>>
> >>> Two comments on this draft:
> >>>
> >>> I'm wondering how useful it is to reserve a MNID type to encode a
> >> 3GPP IMSI [1] given that EAP-AKA [RFC4187] and the 3GPP Numbering,
> >> addressing and identification specification [TS23.003] already
> define
> >> means of encoding the IMSI as an NAI.
> >>> Also, w.r.t. P-TMSI and GUTI, 1) it's unclear to me whether these
> >> identifiers are going to be used to identify a MN with its HA or LMA,
> >> and 2) if it's going to be used, why not let 3GPP define in
> [TS23.003]
> >> their own mapping of P-TMSI, GUTI, or whatever identifier they're
> using,
> >> into a NAI?
> >>> Best,
> >>>
> >>> --julien
> >>>
> >>> [RFC4187]  Extensible Authentication Protocol Method for 3rd
> >> Generation
> >>>            Authentication and Key Agreement (EAP-AKA)
> >>> [TS23.003] 3rd Generation Partnership Project, "3GPP Technical
> >>>            Specification 23.003: Technical Specification Group Core
> >>>            Network and Terminals; Numbering, addressing and
> >> identification"
> >>> Charles E. Perkins wrote:
> >>>> Hello folks,
> >>>>
> >>>> This is a very simple draft, but could make a significant
> >>>> difference in ease of standardization.  Anyway it would
> >>>> avoid the need to shoehorn every possible type of identifier
> >>>> into a new substructure for the MN-NAI.
> >>>>
> >>>> Any comments will be appreciated.
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards,
> >>>> Charlie P.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -------- Original Message --------
> >>>> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-perkins-mext-
> 4283mnids-
> >> 00
> >>>> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 13:20:49 -0700 (PDT)
> >>>> From: IETF I-D Submission Tool <idsubmission at ietf.org>
> >>>> To: charliep at computer.org
> >>>> CC: vijay at wichorus.com
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> A new version of I-D, draft-perkins-mext-4283mnids-00.txt has been
> >>>> successfuly submitted by Charles Perkins and posted to the IETF
> >>>> repository.
> >>>>
> >>>> Filename:	 draft-perkins-mext-4283mnids
> >>>> Revision:	 00
> >>>> Title:		 MN Identifier Types for RFC 4283 Mobile Node
> >>>> Identifier Option
> >>>> Creation_date:	 2009-10-19
> >>>> WG ID:		 Independent Submission
> >>>> Number_of_pages: 8
> >>>>
> >>>> Abstract:
> >>>> Additional Identifier Types are proposed for use with the Mobile
> >> Node
> >>>> Identifier Option for MIPv6 (RFC 4283).
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> The IETF Secretariat.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> MEXT mailing list
> >>>> MEXT at ietf.org
> >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mext
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> MEXT mailing list
> >>> MEXT at ietf.org
> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mext
> >>>
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> MEXT mailing list
> >> MEXT at ietf.org
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mext
> >
> >

References:
- [MEXT] [Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-perkins-mext-4283mnids-00]
  - From: Charles E. Perkins
- Re: [MEXT] [Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-perkins-mext-4283mnids-00]
  - From: Laganier, Julien
- Re: [MEXT] [Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-perkins-mext-4283mnids-00]
  - From: Charles E. Perkins
- Re: [MEXT] [Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-perkins-mext-4283mnids-00]
  - From: Laganier, Julien
- Re: [MEXT] [Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-perkins-mext-4283mnids-00]
  - From: Charles E. Perkins

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