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Re: [netext] [Netext] roaming issue-proposed text for roamingsection



So, when could we have a new version available?

I also remember from the meeting that we are not going to have private
IPv4 address support, NAT traversal etc. 

Thanks,

-Rajeev


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marco Liebsch [mailto:marco.liebsch at nw.neclab.eu] 
> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 3:14 AM
> To: Qin Wu
> Cc: Koodli, Rajeev; netext at ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [netext] [Netext] roaming issue-proposed text 
> for roamingsection
> 
> Hi Qin,
> 
> please see inline for my view.
> 
> Qin Wu schrieb:
> > Hi,
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Koodli, Rajeev" <rkoodli at starentnetworks.com>
> > To: <netext at ietf.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10:39 AM
> > Subject: Re: [netext] [Netext] roaming issue-proposed text for 
> > roamingsection
> >
> >
> >   
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >>     
> >>> [Qin]:  So I think if policy governing the SLA can 
> afffect localized 
> >>> routing directly, the MN's MAG and MN's LMA should belong to 
> >>> different domain.
> >>> In this sense, if MN's MAG and MN's LMA are located in the same 
> >>> domain, SLA policy can not affect localize routing, am I right?
> >>>       
> >> Well, typically SLAs are between provider domains; at least that's 
> >> how I was referring to.
> >>     
> >
> > [Qin]: I agree.
> >
> >   
> >>> Furthermore, besides SLA policy, I think there are other policies 
> >>> that also affect localized routing e.g., in roaming scenario even 
> >>> though MAG and LMA are located in the same domain, having 
> SA between 
> >>> MAG and LMA does not mean localized routing can be performed, 
> >>> because use of local routing may be subject to accounting and 
> >>> routing policies relating to the mobile node, , therefore 
> localized 
> >>> routing signaling between MAG and LMA is required to negotiate 
> >>> localized routing policy information and enable/disable localized 
> >>> routing. Am  I right?
> >>>
> >>>       
> >> Yes, localized routing is subject to policy constraints 
> regardless of 
> >> roaming.
> >>
> >> My point was specific to roaming when the policy allows a MAG to 
> >> provide localized routing.
> >>
> >> I do not think we need to design signaling for exchanging this 
> >> policy, with or without roaming.
> >>     
> >
> > [Qin]: Okay, that is to say information exchange between 
> MAG and LMA 
> > is required, But the information is not necessary to be 
> taken as any policy. am I right?
> >   
> I don't think the protocol should not be used to echange 
> policies, which even does not make sense to me to transfer 
> e.g. provider policies beyond domains, as the remote provider 
> may have different policies. I think components (LMA, MAG) 
> must operate according to their provider's policy and the 
> protocols should just reflect the policy by means of requests 
> to set up localized routing, which can be accepted or not and 
> indicated accordingly in a status/reason code.
> 
> >   
> >> Since LMA is the control entity, we can assume it to exert 
> such policy
> >> control by instructing the MAG to provide localized routing.
> >>     
> >
> > [Qin]: I am wondering whether instructing the MAG to or not 
> to provide localized routing
> > (i.e., enable/disable localized routing) can be viewed as *policy*?
> >   
> I think it's more that the LMA acts according to it's 
> operator's policy. 
> If the policy does not permit
> localized routing, the LMA would not send the request. The 
> instruction/request itself does not
> convey policies, as I understand from your question. This is my view.
> 
> marco
> 
> >   
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> -Rajeev
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>     
> >>>> What do you think?
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards,
> >>>>
> >>>> -Rajeev
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>         
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: netext-bounces at ietf.org
> >>>>> [mailto:netext-bounces at ietf.org] On Behalf Of Qin Wu
> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 1:22 AM
> >>>>> To: Mohana Jeyatharan; Marco Liebsch; Basavaraj.Patil at nokia.com
> >>>>> Cc: netext at ietf.org
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [netext] [Netext] roaming issue-proposed text for 
> >>>>> roamingsection
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi, Mohana:
> >>>>> Thank for your reply.
> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> From: "Mohana Jeyatharan" <Mohana.Jeyatharan at sg.panasonic.com>
> >>>>> To: "Qin Wu" <sunseawq at huawei.com>; "Marco Liebsch" 
> >>>>> <liebsch at nw.neclab.eu>; <Basavaraj.Patil at nokia.com>
> >>>>> Cc: <netext at ietf.org>
> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 3:45 PM
> >>>>> Subject: RE: [Netext] roaming issue-proposed text for 
> >>>>>           
> >>> roaming section
> >>>       
> >>>>> Hi Qin,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sorry wanted to comment on your text, but here are some 
> comments.  
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I think we should stick to the definition of PMIPv6 domain 
> >>>>>           
> >>> as in RFC
> >>>       
> >>>>> 5213 and not change it. That is, as long as the MAG-LMA 
> >>>>>           
> >>> tunnel can be 
> >>>       
> >>>>> created, it is considered as one PMIPv6 domain of MN.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> [Qin]: you are right, wherever MN moves around, MN does 
> not change 
> >>>>> the PMIPv6 domain to which MN belongs, i.e., MN's home 
> >>>>>           
> >>> PMIPv6 domain.
> >>>       
> >>>>> While being attached to such PMIPv6 domain, the MN may change 
> >>>>> administrative domain.
> >>>>> i.e. move from home domain to another administrative 
> >>>>>           
> >>> domain (foreign 
> >>>       
> >>>>> domain).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> [Qin]: Another administrative domain you mentioned above can be 
> >>>>> viewed as MN's visited PMIPv6 domain.
> >>>>> that is to say, although MN changes from one visited 
> >>>>>           
> >>> PMIPv6 domain to 
> >>>       
> >>>>> another, MN does not change its home
> >>>>> PMIPv6 domain, does this sounds reasonable? Anyway, you 
> >>>>>           
> >>> can stick to 
> >>>       
> >>>>> use administrative to describe roaming if you like.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Now, please see some comments on the text proposed.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> BR,
> >>>>> Mohana
> >>>>>
> >>>>>           
> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>> From: Qin Wu [mailto:sunseawq at huawei.com]
> >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 8:30 PM
> >>>>>> To: Marco Liebsch; Basavaraj.Patil at nokia.com
> >>>>>> Cc: netext at ietf.org; Mohana Jeyatharan
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Netext] roaming issue-proposed text for
> >>>>>>             
> >>>>> roaming section
> >>>>>           
> >>>>>> Hi, all:
> >>>>>> Since folks has no objection to add a section to talk 
> >>>>>>             
> >>> about roaming
> >>>       
> >>>>> issues.
> >>>>>           
> >>>>>> I would like to propose
> >>>>>> some texts based on roaming picture proposed by Marco. 
> >>>>>>             
> >>> The proposed
> >>>       
> >>>>> text
> >>>>>           
> >>>>>> is as follows:
> >>>>>> "
> >>>>>> In the real PMIPv6 deployment, PMIPv6 components(e.g., 
> >>>>>>             
> >>> LMAs, MAGs)
> >>>       
> >>>>> [Mohana: tied to a given MN]
> >>>>>
> >>>>> [Qin]:Okay.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> can be
> >>>>>           
> >>>>>> distributed into different PMIPv6 domains
> >>>>>>             
> >>>>> [Mohana: adminsitrative
> >>>>> domain. Example LMA placed in one administrative domain and MAG 
> >>>>> placed in another administrative domain].
> >>>>>
> >>>>> [Qin]: I think we have two choices to describe roaming:
> >>>>> 1) define administrative domain
> >>>>> 2) Separate PMIPv6 domains into PMIPv6 home domain and 
> >>>>>           
> >>> PMIPv6 visited 
> >>>       
> >>>>> domain Both can be used to describe roaming, in my mind.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>           
> >>>>>> In order to support localized
> >>>>>> routing, it is required that MAGs to which MN and CN 
> connect  are
> >>>>>>             
> >>>>> within
> >>>>>           
> >>>>>> the same PMIPv6 domain [Mohana: within the same administrative
> >>>>>>             
> >>>>> domain.]and each MAG setup security relationship
> >>>>>           
> >>>>>> respectively with corresponding LMAs which maintain specific 
> >>>>>> context
> >>>>>>             
> >>>>> to
> >>>>>           
> >>>>>> which MN and CN belong. It is not required that LMAs 
> >>>>>>             
> >>> anchored by MN
> >>>       
> >>>>> and CN
> >>>>>           
> >>>>>> are part of PMIPv6 domain [Mohana:administrative 
> domain] as MAGs
> >>>>>>             
> >>>>> attached by MN and CN. MN is allowed to
> >>>>>           
> >>>>>> roam within its PMIPv6 domain (i.e, MN's home domain in
> >>>>>>             
> >>>>> which MN's LMA
> >>>>> is
> >>>>>           
> >>>>>> located) or over different PMIPv6 domains(i.e., MN's
> >>>>>>             
> >>>>> visited domains).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> [Mohana: I would say MN is allowed to roam from home 
> >>>>>           
> >>> adminsitartive 
> >>>       
> >>>>> domain to visted administrative domain all tied to a 
> single PMIPv6 
> >>>>> domain of Mn]
> >>>>>
> >>>>> [Qin]: see above.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> CN
> >>>>>           
> >>>>>> should stay with MN within the same PMIPv6 domain [Mohana:
> >>>>>>             
> >>>>> administrative domain].  
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Figure x shows PMIPv6
> >>>>>           
> >>>>>> roaming cases where MAGs attached by MN and CN belong 
> to the same
> >>>>>>             
> >>>>> PMIPv6
> >>>>>           
> >>>>>> domain. In this figure, four PMIPv6 roaming cases need 
> >>>>>>             
> >>> to be taken
> >>>       
> >>>>> into
> >>>>>           
> >>>>>> account.
> >>>>>> Roaming case 1:
> >>>>>> MN's MAG(MAG1), CN's MAG(MAG2),MN's LMA(LMA1),CN's 
> LMA(LMA2) are
> >>>>>>             
> >>>>> located
> >>>>>           
> >>>>>> in the same PMIPv6 domain A as described in the figure 2.
> >>>>>> Roaming case 2:
> >>>>>> MN's MAG(MAG1), CN's MAG(MAG2),MN's LMA(LMA1) are located
> >>>>>>             
> >>>>> in the same
> >>>>>           
> >>>>>> PMIPv6 domain A while CN's LMA(LMA2') is located in the
> >>>>>>             
> >>>>> PMIPv6 domain
> >>>>> B.
> >>>>>           
> >>>>>> Roaming case 3:
> >>>>>> MN's MAG(MAG1'), CN's MAG(MAG2') are located in the 
> >>>>>>             
> >>> PMIPv6 domain C
> >>>       
> >>>>> while
> >>>>>           
> >>>>>> MN's LMA(LMA1) and CN's LMA(LMA2) are located in the 
> >>>>>>             
> >>> PMIPv6 domain 
> >>>       
> >>>>>> A Roaming case 4:
> >>>>>> MN's MAG(MAG1'), CN's MAG(MAG2') are located in the 
> >>>>>>             
> >>> PMIPv6 domain C
> >>>       
> >>>>> while
> >>>>>           
> >>>>>> MN's LMA(LMA1) is located in the PMIPv6 domain A, and CN's 
> >>>>>> LMA(LMA2)
> >>>>>>             
> >>>>> is
> >>>>>           
> >>>>>> located in the PMIPv6 domain B
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "
> >>>>>>             
> >>>>> [Mohana] I think, where description is made regarding MN and CN 
> >>>>> placement in a certain PMIPv6 domain, it is better to say 
> >>>>>           
> >>> in the same 
> >>>       
> >>>>> administrative domain.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> [Qin] I think for now some people support this, some not.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It is just that MN is roaming in its PMIPv6 domain and CN 
> >>>>>           
> >>> is roaming 
> >>>       
> >>>>> in its PMIPv6 domain, and local MAG routing canbe 
> >>>>>           
> >>> performed when MN's 
> >>>       
> >>>>> MAG and CN's MAG are the same or are placed in the same 
> >>>>>           
> >>> adminstrative 
> >>>       
> >>>>> domain.  I think such things need to be captued.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> [Qin] Right.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>           
> >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> ----------
> >>>>> --
> >>>>>           
> >>>>>> ------
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>             
> >>>>>>>                                     |
> >>>>>>>           +-----+       +-----+     |      +-----+
> >>>>>>>           |LMA1 |       |LMA2 |     |      |LMA2'|
> >>>>>>>           +-----+       +-----+     |      +-----+
> >>>>>>>                                     |
> >>>>>>>                                     |
> >>>>>>>                                     |
> >>>>>>>                                     |
> >>>>>>>           +-----+       +-----+     |
> >>>>>>>           |MAG1 |       |MAG2 |     |
> >>>>>>>           +-----+       +-----+     |
> >>>>>>>                                     |
> >>>>>>>                                     |
> >>>>>>>                                  A  |  B
> >>>>>>>       
> >>>>>>>               
> >>>>> ------------------------------+-------------------------------
> >>>>>           
> >>>>>>>                                     C
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>                          +-----+        +-----+
> >>>>>>>                          |MAG1'|        |MAG2'|
> >>>>>>>                          +-----+        +-----+
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>               
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>             
> >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> ----------
> >>>>> --
> >>>>>           
> >>>>>> ------
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> If people prefer to use administrative domain, we can 
> replace all
> >>>>>>             
> >>>>> PMIPv6
> >>>>>           
> >>>>>> domain in the proposed text with *administrative domain*,
> >>>>>>             
> >>>>> Welcome your
> >>>>>           
> >>>>>> bash,:-)
> >>>>>> Regards!
> >>>>>> -Qin
> >>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>> From: "Marco Liebsch" <liebsch at nw.neclab.eu>
> >>>>>> To: <Basavaraj.Patil at nokia.com>
> >>>>>> Cc: <netext at ietf.org>; <Mohana.Jeyatharan at sg.panasonic.com>
> >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 11:07 PM
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [netext] [Netext] localized route optimization
> >>>>>>             
> >>>>> - roaming
> >>>>>           
> >>>>>> issue
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>             
> >>>>>>> Hi Raj,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> yes, agreed, that's why it has been proposed to add a 
> >>>>>>>               
> >>> section on
> >>>       
> >>>>> this in
> >>>>>           
> >>>>>>> the PS. The picture
> >>>>>>> could be based on what I sent some mails ago. We're currently
> >>>>>>>               
> >>>>> preparing
> >>>>>           
> >>>>>>> some text, but
> >>>>>>> I think it makes sense to discuss and agree on the 
> >>>>>>>               
> >>> text before it
> >>>       
> >>>>> goes
> >>>>>           
> >>>>>>> to the PS draft.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> marco
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Basavaraj.Patil at nokia.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>               
> >>>>>>>> Hi Marco,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> One of the issues that we got hung up at IETF75 during the LR
> >>>>>>>>                 
> >>>>>> discussion was
> >>>>>>             
> >>>>>>>> on roaming. It would be good to have a clear 
> >>>>>>>>                 
> >>> description of the
> >>>       
> >>>>>> relationship
> >>>>>>             
> >>>>>>>> between the MAG and LMA in the context of a PMIP6 domain
> >>>>>>>>                 
> >>>>> especially
> >>>>>           
> >>>>>> when you
> >>>>>>             
> >>>>>>>> consider home and visited network scenarios wherein 
> >>>>>>>>                 
> >>> the MAG/LMA
> >>>       
> >>>>>> entities are
> >>>>>>             
> >>>>>>>> in different domains.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> The PMIP6 domain definition in RFC5213:
> >>>>>>>> "
> >>>>>>>>       Proxy Mobile IPv6 domain refers to the network 
> where the
> >>>>>>>>                 
> >>>>> mobility
> >>>>>           
> >>>>>>>>       management of a mobile node is handled using the
> >>>>>>>>                 
> >>>>> Proxy Mobile
> >>>>>           
> >>>>>> IPv6
> >>>>>>             
> >>>>>>>>       protocol as defined in this specification.  The
> >>>>>>>>                 
> >>>>> Proxy Mobile
> >>>>> IPv6
> >>>>>           
> >>>>>>>>       domain includes local mobility anchors and 
> mobile access
> >>>>>>>>                 
> >>>>> gateways
> >>>>>           
> >>>>>>>>       between which security associations can be set up and
> >>>>>>>>       authorization for sending Proxy Binding Updates on
> >>>>>>>>                 
> >>>>> behalf of
> >>>>> the
> >>>>>           
> >>>>>>>>       mobile nodes can be ensured.
> >>>>>>>> "
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> does not have any references to home/visited network
> >>>>>>>>                 
> >>>>> concepts. The
> >>>>> only
> >>>>>           
> >>>>>>>> criteria for an entity (MAG/LMA) being considered 
> >>>>>>>>                 
> >>> being a part 
> >>>       
> >>>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>>>                 
> >>>>> the
> >>>>>           
> >>>>>> PMIP6
> >>>>>>             
> >>>>>>>> domain is the existence of a security association. It
> >>>>>>>>                 
> >>>>> would be good
> >>>>> to
> >>>>>           
> >>>>>>>> elaborate how this maps to the current discussion in LR.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> -Raj
> >>>>>>>>                 
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> netext mailing list
> >>>>> netext at ietf.org
> >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netext
> >>>>>
> >>>>>           
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> netext mailing list
> >>>> netext at ietf.org
> >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netext
> >>>>         
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> netext mailing list
> >> netext at ietf.org
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netext
> >>     
> > _______________________________________________
> > netext mailing list
> > netext at ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netext
> >   
> 
> 
> 

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