Re: [newtrk] IETF Process discussions - next steps

[John C Klensin <john-ietf at jck.com>]

--On Thursday, 10 August, 2006 12:38 +0200 Eliot Lear
<lear at cisco.com> wrote:

> In the process of doing so, we should recognize that the three
> step process is obsolete.  Anyone who disgrees with that
> statement is ignoring the evidence.  Our tradition as an
> organization is to attempt to rectify our specifications based
> on running code.  Let us please do so in this instance.

Eliot,

I don't know whether it is worth prolonging this discussion, but
suggest there is a counter-hypothesis --or a least a positive
feedback cycle-- that could explain "the evidence" other than
"the three step process is obsolete".    With the understanding
that I'm no longer convinced that we need more than two steps
--at least without a drastic change in the Draft-> Full model--
the intent about Proposed was that the approval process be
fairly lightweight in all cases that didn't appear to pose a
serious danger to the Internet.  The threshold for Proposed has
grown higher and higher, with more and more nit-picking and
hoop-jumping to get a document through the system.  Under the
counter-hypothesis, this has driven  the incentives to move
beyond Proposed down because of some or all of 

	(i) It is so exhausting to get something to Proposed
	that there is no energy left.
	
	(ii) It takes so long to get to Proposed that product
	cycles dictate implementing and deploying there and then
	stopping.
	
	(iii) Documents are required to be so "finished" to get
	to Proposed that there is little point putting effort
	into trying to make an improved form.

And so on.

If any or all of those are a significant part of the problem,
then the fix may lie in lowering the effective barriers to
Proposed for lots of cases, not in major changes to the
Standards track.  And that fix does not require changes to 2026,
indeed, it is completely consistent with it.

    john

.
newtrk resources:_____________________________________________________
web user interface: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/newtrk.html
mhonarc archive: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~llynch/newtrk/index.html