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Re: RFC 2370 Update and a Proposed Change to Stub Area Behavior



I'd have to agree that stub and NSSA areas are still beneficial. Even if all of the
routers in the routing domain could accommodate all the LSAs, there is still a benefit
in being able break up the routing domain into smaller areas with reduced flooding
and simplified routing. NSSAs have additional benefits in being able to partition (with
limitations) your routing domain into sub-domains sharing a common backbone (a la
Pat Murphy's network).


Thanks,
Acee

Andrew Smith wrote:

Stub areas are very useful. Some networks, such as cable modem networks,
branch out from the core of the network like tree roots. Some providers
choose to run OSPF on the Layer 3 CMTSs which may or may not be able to
handle thousands of routes.

I have used Stub and NSSA areas in these situations with very good
results. The routers and CMTSs are quite peaceful with only a few
hundred intra-area routes.

Unless you have a network full of high-end routers I recommend using
Stub or NSSA areas on segments of the network that don't require a full
routing table or a full view of the routing domain. It can increase
operational stability of the network.

Regards,
Andy Smith

-----Original Message-----
From: Mailing List [mailto:OSPF at PEACH.EASE.LSOFT.COM] On Behalf Of Dave
Katz
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 10:34 PM
To: OSPF at PEACH.EASE.LSOFT.COM
Subject: Re: RFC 2370 Update and a Proposed Change to Stub Area Behavior


I guess the broader question is, does this really matter at all? Are stub areas even useful any longer?


Once upon a time, routers were memory-starved little boxes, but it's not clear to me at this point why anybody actually needs stub areas, unless they're still running AGS+'s someplace.

Stub areas were a hack 15+ years ago (along with a bunch of other sort-sighted optimizations) but they don't seem all that useful these days...

--Dave


On Aug 11, 2005, at 5:09 PM, Erblichs wrote:



Group,

   I vote NOT to remove the restriction on the
flooding of unknown LSAs into stub area. I vote for
#2 or #3. Sorry, I have not spent any major time looking
at the pros / cons between the later 2.

Why?
   1) The primary reason is that some of the these LSAs
      are unknown to a percentage of the routers within
      the stub area. Even the "attempt" to limit them
      would follow the reason to limit the database size,
      memory requirements, sizing of OSPF control packets,
      etc... This limit is suggested in the 1st paragraph
      of every OSPF v2 RFC. A copy is in the middle of this
   email.

    2) What is an unknown LSA? What LSA type greater than
   X is an unknown? What help is it by having just 1
   router understand it? Can they equal in number
   over time External-LSAs and be totally useless in
   our env? Where should we put the older routers that
   we want to isolate from our network?

    3) Is is possible to have 30% - 90% of LSAs in a router's
   db be present in a stub area, be unknown LSAs? Shouldn't
   their be an attempt to limit this percentage?

   3b) Could we be using / spending a large percentage
       of our OSPF control packet time / resources
       handling unknown LSAs?

    4) Backward compatibility.. I would assume that most
   environments would not like to just start seeing
   something new in their network just show up.

   "An area can be configured as a stub when there is a single exit
       point from the area, or when the choice of exit point need not
       be made on a per-external-destination basis."

   Lets look at the third word, can. It would be different
   if we used the word SHOULD or MUST.

   Thus, if a area that CAN be configured as a stub wishes
   to process unknown LSAs, then why not configure the
   without the STUB area identification? Wouldn't this allow
   for backward capability? Yes, we then allow AS-external-LSAs
   in this non named stubby area.

   Or create a new "stubby area" type that accepts or
   not accept, xyz type LSAs. This new area type would then be
   allowed to accept new LSAs as they show up? The diff
   would be that "unknown LSAs" have no restrictions and
   could consume the majority of the router's LSDB.


Mitchell Erblich -----------------------


RFC 1247, 1583, 2178, 2328 : OSPFv2. --------- 3.6 Supporting stub areas

In some Autonomous Systems, the majority of the topological
database may
consist of external advertisements. An OSPF external advertisement is
usually flooded throughout the entire AS. However, OSPF allows certain
areas to be configured as "stub areas". External advertisements are not
flooded into/throughout stub areas; routing to AS external destinations
in these areas is based on a (per-area) default only. This reduces the
topological database size, and therefore the memory requirements, for a
stub area's internal routers.



==========================

========================

Acee Lindem wrote:



At the 63rd IETF in Paris, I proposed that we remove the restriction on the
flooding of unknown LSAs into stub areas. Here is an excerpt from the
presentation:


- Section 2.9 mandates that an OSPFv3 router should NOT advertise an
unknown LSA if the U bit is set to "1" - flood as if known.
->Should be removed in RFC 2740 respin.
->Limits backward compatibility for new LSA types
->No corresponding rule for opaque LSAs
->Fact that LSA is flooded at all implies one router is stub/NSSA
understands it.
->Ineffective/non-deterministic database limit
->As long as there is an intra-area spanning tree of routers that
understand the LSA type - The LSA will be in everyones database

Comments? Speak now if you wish to retain the current stub area restriction.
My intent is to deprecate it with an appendix documenting it's removal.


Thanks,
Acee

Acee Lindem wrote:




In the evolution of the OSPFv2 protocol specification
(RFC 1247->RFC 1583 -> RFC 2178 -> RFC 2328) numerous
bugs were fixed and some protocol behaviors were altered. Examples
include the metric cost for area ranges and the selection of the
ASBR for AS external route computation.

In the context of documenting the OSPFv3 NSSA differences I've
looked again at section 2.10 and I really think the idea of not flooding
unknown LSA types with the U-bit set to 1 is broken. I think it breaks
the whole idea of being able to introduce new LSA types in a backward
compatible fashion. Furthermore, it won't stop the leakage of these
unknown LSAs when some routers understand them and others do not -
it all depends on whether you have a spanning tree of routers that
understand them. Since the LSAs in question are area scoped or link
scoped, it implies that at least one router (the originator)
understands the
new type and you will have a mixture. IMHO, this is broken. I've had
some discussions with others who agree. At this juncture,
we have 3 alternatives:


1) Remove the restriction for that unknown LSAs with the U-bit
set to 0 for stub areas.
2) Extend the broken restriction to NSSAs in the update.
3) Limit the damage to stub areas and only restrict AS scoped LSAs
from NSSAs.

Of course, I'd vote for #1 or I wouldn't be sending this E-mail.

Thanks,
Acee