Re: [Pana] What to do with I-D: draft-ietf-pana-ipsec

["Alper Yegin" <alper.yegin at yegin.org>]

Joe,

PaC-EP key is used by the PaC and the EP.
EP may be physically separate from the PAA (e.g., a base station separated
from NAS).
PaC-EP key is used by the secure association protocol between the PaC and
the EP.

I'm not sure if these satisfy your conditions. Please let us know.

Alper





> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joseph Salowey (jsalowey) [mailto:jsalowey at cisco.com]
> Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 7:40 PM
> To: Jari Arkko; Alper Yegin
> Cc: yohba at tari.toshiba.com; pana at ietf.org; Basavaraj.Patil at nokia.com
> Subject: RE: [Pana] What to do with I-D: draft-ietf-pana-ipsec
> 
> If the use of the key is entirely within the PANA authenticator and
> PANA
> specifications then using the MSK is OK.  If the same key is going to
> be
> used in specifications independent of PANA (802.11, etc) or used
> somewhere other than the authenticator then the MSK may not be a good
> choice.
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: pana-bounces at ietf.org [mailto:pana-bounces at ietf.org] On
> > Behalf Of Jari Arkko
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 7:06 AM
> > To: Alper Yegin
> > Cc: yohba at tari.toshiba.com; pana at ietf.org; Basavaraj.Patil at nokia.com
> > Subject: Re: [Pana] What to do with I-D: draft-ietf-pana-ipsec
> >
> > I think I agree with what Alper is saying below. It is
> > obviously important to have separated keys for PANA itself
> > and the per-packet protection (such as for IPsec). But given
> > the definition of the keys used for PANA in the RFC, I think
> > it is possible to have other MSK-derived keys for IPsec.
> >
> > Jari
> >
> > Alper Yegin wrote:
> > >> As
> > >> for draft-ohba-pana-pemk-02, it specifies (as does 5191)
> > the use of
> > >> the MSK which is a _really_ bad idea IMHO -- the EMSK
> > should really
> > >> be used instead.
> > >>
> > >
> > > Why so?
> > >
> > > Secure association protocols have been using MSK-driven keys.
> > > And it makes sense, as MSK is what NAS knows (not EMSK).
> > > I have no idea what value using EMSK has, but the obvious
> > cost is to
> > > impact the AAA deployment between the NAS and AAA servers.
> > Today AAA
> > > protocols deliver MSK, not EMSK or any of its children.
> > >
> > > Alper
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
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> >