RE: [Raven] And it ought to be remembered that there is...

[Chris Savage <chris.savage@crblaw.com>]

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Christian Price [mailto:ccprice@sprintparanet.com]
>Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2000 12:45 PM
>To: raven@ietf.org
>Subject: RE: [Raven] And it ought to be remembered that there is...
>
>
>Within the sphere of western liberal reasoning Machiavelli is 
>quite contrary to the values held.  Inevitably his philosophies
>leave us with the assumption that man is a corrupt beast incapable
>of aspiring to a higher calling.  How fitting it is that a proponent
>of tappable encryption should quote a master of enslavement such as
>Machiavelli - and guise it in terms of freedom.
>
>Great leaders have always fiercely defended the goodness of man, never
>propped up his weaknesses.
>
>--Christian

Actually, I was going to suggest that the framers of the U.S. Constitution
assumed that most people could and would be knaves in appropriate
circumstances, including, specifically, the circumstance of being tempted by
being able to wield governmental power.  Hence our elaborate system of
checks and balances, and our Bill of Rights, including the 4th Amendment to
specifically limit the right of the government to "search" or "seize"
citizen's property and information.

So I think the invocation of Machiavelli is very appropriate.  His
observations relate to the (potential) behavior of both private citizens and
those holding (or seeking) power.  The point of the U.S.'s convoluted and
inefficient governmental structure is to make it more difficult for those
whose nature or circumstances make them Machiavels to accomplish their
purposes -- or, at least, more difficult to accomplish them in the ways that
Machiavelli might have recommended.

None of this is to say that the question of access to encrypted
communications is an easy one under U.S. law and constitutional
jurisprudence.  It isn't.

It is to say, though, that the folks who wrote the U.S. constitution and who
have interpreted it over the years have not, in general, been naive or
idealistic.  While they may not have "propped up [people's] weaknesses,"
neither have they been blind to them.  Striking a realistic, clear-headed
balance between doing what we need to keep society and government going, and
protecting the public (even if venal and clueless at some times and in some
respects) from the government, is the point of the exercise.

Not that the role of Machiavellian political theory within constitutional
government has much to do with the charter of this (no-doubt)
soon-to-be-closed list.  But what the heck.

Chris S.


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