RE: [Raven] And it ought to be remembered that there is...

["Christian Price" <ccprice@sprintparanet.com>]

Within the sphere of western liberal reasoning Machiavelli is quite contrary
to the values held.  Inevitably his philosophies leave us with the
assumption that man is a corrupt beast incapable of aspiring to a higher
calling.  How fitting it is that a proponet of tappable encryption should
quote a master of enslavement such as Machiavelli - and guise it in terms of
freedom.

Great leaders have always fiercly defended the goodness of man, never
propped up his weaknesses.

--Christian

> -----Original Message-----
> From: raven-admin@ietf.org [mailto:raven-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf Of
> chefren
> Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 4:09 PM
> To: raven@ietf.org
> Subject: [Raven] And it ought to be remembered that there is...
>
>
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~stilling/Prince.htm
>
>   ..
>
>   And it ought to be remembered that there is nothing more difficult
>   to take in hand, more perilous to conduct, or more uncertain in its
>   success, than to take the lead in the introduction of a new order
>   of things. Because the innovator has for enemies all those who have
>   done well under the old conditions, and lukewarm defenders in those
>   who may do well under the new. This coolness arises partly from
>   fear of the opponents, who have the laws  on their side, and partly
>   from the incredulity of men, who do not readily believe in new
>   things until they have had a long experience of them. Thus it
>   happens that whenever those who are hostile have the opportunity to
>   attack they do it like partisans, whilst the others defend
>   lukewarmly, in such wise that the prince is endangered along with
>   them. It is necessary, therefore, if we desire to discuss this
>   matter thoroughly, to inquire whether these innovators can rely on
>   themselves or have to depend on others: that is to say, whether, to
>   consummate their enterprise, have they to use prayers or can they
>   use force? In the first instance they always succeed badly, and
>   never compass  anything; but when they can rely on themselves and
>   use force, then they are rarely endangered. Hence it is that all
>   armed prophets have conquered, and the unarmed ones have been
>   destroyed. Besides the reasons mentioned, the nature of the people
>   is variable, and whilst it is easy to persuade them, it is
>   difficult to fix them in that persuasion. And thus it is necessary
>   to take such measures that, when they believe no longer, it may be
>   possible to make them believe by force.
>
>   ..
>
>   Niccolò Machiavelli, Il Principe, 1513/1514.
>
>
>
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