Re: [Raven] And it ought to be remembered that there is...

[Ed Stone <estone@synernet.com>]

At 12:35 PM 4/13/2000 , chefren wrote:
>I hope you do understand that it was a carefull selected
>piece of ancient wisdom to describe the majority of IETF-
>and Raven members as more or less clueless and fearing
>people without much oversight that obstruct probably the
>only way that can serve them the privacy they undoubtly
>wish and should have right to?

Here, we should give chefren credit for clearly stating the rationale for 
oligarchy or dictatorship. A majority viewed by a few as clueless and 
fearing, and because the few find the many to be so lacking, a reason to 
dictate to them arises, for their own good.  Usually, this view is 
accompanied by assertion that the few are more honorable and good than the 
many (not just smarter or more "clueful"), further indication that the many 
must be subjugated by the few for the greater good. Unsurprisingly, this 
case is generally made by a self-appointed member of the "few".


>Our =society= CANNOT accept places where members can hide
>for law enforcement. If members of our society think guns
>should be free, law enforcement inevitably have to be
>equipped with bigger guns stupid but true. If members of
>our society think they should be free to use encryption,
>inevitably law enforcement will get means to circumvent it,
>bugs in keyboards, sniffer programs in PC's et cetera. Far
>more stupid than bigger guns!

This is strange. It is legal to possess and use strong encryption. Why does 
chefren make a case that the legal possession and use of strong encryption 
is probable cause for police intrusion on an individual, or for societal 
surveillance? And why doesn't he find other legal activities (such a 
political speech, writing a book, voting, supporting a political candidate) 
as similarly giving police probable cause to intrude?


>Please get real, throw away that useless upcoming RFC and
>help =designing= a society with BOTH secure communication
>AND privacy for the people.

There is a large number of people to whom the phrase "design a society" 
evokes dread and fear, and images of the Ministry of Truth. Possibly we can 
let our governments design a post office or a department of motor vehicles, 
and do it well, first.

--
--------------------------
Ed Stone
estone@synernet.com
--------------------------

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