[Raven] RE: [Raven]

["Lyal Collins" <lyalc@ozemail.com.au>]

Before we go completely off-topic, lets not forget to add USA, UK and
Australia to this list of 'nasty' countries, who seem have got (or be
getting) to the same point of intrusive monitoring (i.e. software bug based)
of data at source, rather than line monitoiring.

I'm sure there are others.

Lyal


> -----Original Message-----
> From: raven-admin@ietf.org [mailto:raven-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf Of
> chefren
> Sent: Friday, 14 April 2000 6:20
> To: raven@ietf.org
> Subject: [Raven] Flames ending in Fireworks to mark the end of Raven?
>
>
>
> Uh oh...
>
> On 13 Apr 00, at 13:04, Matthew_G_Saroff@raytheon.com wrote:
>
> >         Yes, you know of a number of societies in which the
> rights of the
> > society take absolute preference over the rights of the individual:
> > Stalin's Russia, The People's Republic of China, The Khemer Rouge
> > Cambodia, Nazi Germany, and (If Chefren is an indicator) the
> Netherlands.
>
> (Matthew is a reasonable guy? Yes! thanks for not calling
> it "Chefren's Netherlands" or something like that.)
>
>
>
> Hm, when I think of the maximum preferences above
> individual rights I think "death penalty" and "spying"
> immediately "The United States of America" come up in my
> mind. And not those 4 primitive and 1 innovating countries
> you mention.
>
>
> Oh yes, your country "ensures" the rights of individuals
> with primitive means such as the Right to Bear Arms, wow!
> Pretty useless for your country and pretty bad for your
> citizens. Lot's of them end up murdered and lots of them
> end up jailed and some even murdered by The United States
> of America.
>
>
> Unfortunately you exported the virtual equivalent of free
> arms, free use of encryption. Not only that, also the
> fallacy that there are no other choices to ensure privacy
> in a decent way.
>
> It ends up with encryption being used by more and more
> criminals now and my pretty democratic and open country has
> to come up with means for law enforcement that are nothing
> less than disgusting.
>
> Technically no problem, my country can shop for the
> necessary tools in your country that has honed the skills
> to supervise citizens...
>
> +++chefren
>
>
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