[rrg] Lixia & Scott's taxonomy I-D and other taxonomy attempts
Robin Whittle <rw@firstpr.com.au> Tue, 07 September 2010 11:54 UTC
Return-Path: <rw@firstpr.com.au>
X-Original-To: rrg@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rrg@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 501AB3A68D9 for <rrg@core3.amsl.com>; Tue, 7 Sep 2010 04:54:21 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: 0.664
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.664 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.041, BAYES_50=0.001, HELO_EQ_AU=0.377, HOST_EQ_AU=0.327]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JffgDkcRY0eY for <rrg@core3.amsl.com>; Tue, 7 Sep 2010 04:54:18 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from gair.firstpr.com.au (gair.firstpr.com.au [150.101.162.123]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B29C3A68D3 for <rrg@irtf.org>; Tue, 7 Sep 2010 04:54:17 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [10.0.0.6] (wira.firstpr.com.au [10.0.0.6]) by gair.firstpr.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6D15175C77; Tue, 7 Sep 2010 21:54:43 +1000 (EST)
Message-ID: <4C86280A.1020909@firstpr.com.au>
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2010 21:54:50 +1000
From: Robin Whittle <rw@firstpr.com.au>
Organization: First Principles
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-GB; rv:1.9.2.8) Gecko/20100802 Thunderbird/3.1.2
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rrg@irtf.org
References: <467c.11769f8e.39afa473@aol.com> <4C7E7AE2.8060709@firstpr.com.au> <AAE85E2C-A76E-43F6-B7AA-F77C9ACCEBE7@cs.ucla.edu>
In-Reply-To: <AAE85E2C-A76E-43F6-B7AA-F77C9ACCEBE7@cs.ucla.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Cc: Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org>
Subject: [rrg] Lixia & Scott's taxonomy I-D and other taxonomy attempts
X-BeenThere: rrg@irtf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: IRTF Routing Research Group <rrg.irtf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/rrg>, <mailto:rrg-request@irtf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.irtf.org/mail-archive/web/rrg>
List-Post: <mailto:rrg@irtf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rrg-request@irtf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/rrg>, <mailto:rrg-request@irtf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2010 11:54:22 -0000
Short version: I found six attempts at making a taxonomy of RRG proposed architectures: March 2008 Lixia and Scott's I-D April 2008 My 25 questions April 2008 Joel Halpern's I-D July 2008 Christian Vogt's PDF document Early 2009 Based on Bill Herrin's Strategies Early 2010 My CES/CEE distinction messages Hi Lixia, In "Re: [rrg] [IRSG] IRSG Review: draft-irtf-rrg-recommendation- 12.txt" you wrote: >> I figure people will read it. The questions we are tackling will >> come up in the future, even if nothing is done with LISP, Ivip, >> IRON, ILNP or whatever for five or ten years. > > Based on what I have seen in the past, I agree here. OK. > 1/ The terms CES versus CEE came from a HOTNET paper, "Towards A > Future Internet Architecture: Arguments for Separating Edges from > Transit Core" ACM Workshop on Hot Topics in Networks (HotNets), > October 2008 > http://conferences.sigcomm.org/hotnets/2008/papers/18.pdf > > I do not think "DNS-based" or not is part of the CEE concept. I agree. > 2/ I recall that long time ago I signed up to help a taxonomy > draft. Scott Brim and I even produced a couple versions (predated > the above mentioned paper). Although I've stepped down from RRG, I > feel an obligation to help finish this piece. > > Let me first dig out the old draft by Scott and me. Then look over > the mailing list discussion (if Robin has pointers at hand, that'd > be very helpful than going through all email archive:) > > I chatted with Scott about this taxonomy draft at Maastricht IETF. > Scott, wonder if your busy period is over and have some cycles for > this now. Scott announced the I-D on 2008-03-29: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rrg/current/msg02006.html The I-D is version 00 only, from the same date: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rrg-taxonomy-00 I commented on it on 2008-03-31, you responded and I replied: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rrg/current/msg02015.html http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rrg/current/msg02038.html http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rrg/current/msg02042.html There was also an exchange between you and Heiner Hummel a few days later. As far as I know, there were no further substantial discussions of this I-D on the list. Hannu Flinck (msg02132.html) wrote positively of your I-D. You wrote to the list: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rrg/current/msg02162.html with primarily a 2-way taxonomy, with a potential 3rd classification for address rewriting proposals (such as Six-One Router, I guess). A second taxonomy attempt began on 2008-04-02: I made a set of 25 questions: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rrg/current/msg02033.html and after some discussion, made a web page which incorporated suggestions from other people: http://www.firstpr.com.au/ip/ivip/comp/ Most of the questions refer to distinctions between what we know know (or at least some people recognise as) Core-Edge Separation architectures. This has been pretty much superseded, since most of the proposed architectures considered in this framework are no longer under development - or have changed considerably. On 2008-04-28, Joel Halpern wrote to the list: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rrg/current/msg02161.html about his new I-D, which he updated on 2008-07-12 to version 01: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-halpern-rrg-taxonomy-01 On 2008-07-25, Christian Vogt wrote to the list: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rrg/current/msg02911.html referring to: http://users.piuha.net/chvogt/pub/2008/vogt-2008-design-taxonomy.pdf which no longer exists. I don't recall anything about this, and I think it was not discussed on the list. I don't think I have a copy. Another attempt at a taxonomy was in early 2009: http://www.firstpr.com.au/ip/ivip/rrgarch/ This is based on Bill Herrin's Summary of Routing Architectures discussed in the RRG: http://bill.herrin.us/network/rrgarchitectures.html I attempted to keep my page updated according to suggestions arising in discussion. Strategy A is basically Core-Edge Separation (CES) and Strategy B is basically Core-Edge Elimination (CEE). Bill's approach was mentioned in the initial draft of the RRG Recommendation: 2009-02-15: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-rrg-recommendation-00 after another taxonomy based on "mechanism". Versions 01 and 02 to 2009-03-29 were similar. Version 03 (2009-12-26) was a completely different document. A more recent taxonomy approach is the two-way distinction between CES and CEE, from early 2010: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rrg/current/msg06250.html http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rrg/current/msg05865.html This is based on your Hotnets paper. My message of 2010-02-12 http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rrg/current/msg06009.html contains an attempt to understand the history of this CES/CEE distinction. This list is based on searching my RRG mailbox, which starts on 2007-03-31 - for "taxonomy" in the subject line and then in the body. - Robin
- [rrg] IRSG Review: draft-irtf-rrg-recommendation-… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [rrg] [IRSG] IRSG Review: draft-irtf-rrg-reco… Robin Whittle
- Re: [rrg] [IRSG] IRSG Review: draft-irtf-rrg-reco… HeinerHummel
- Re: [rrg] [IRSG] IRSG Review: draft-irtf-rrg-reco… Tony Li
- Re: [rrg] [IRSG] IRSG Review: draft-irtf-rrg-reco… Stephen D. Strowes
- Re: [rrg] [IRSG] IRSG Review: draft-irtf-rrg-reco… Robin Whittle
- Re: [rrg] [IRSG] IRSG Review: draft-irtf-rrg-reco… Tony Li
- Re: [rrg] [IRSG] IRSG Review: draft-irtf-rrg-reco… Tony Li
- Re: [rrg] [IRSG] IRSG Review: draft-irtf-rrg-reco… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [rrg] [IRSG] IRSG Review: draft-irtf-rrg-reco… Robin Whittle
- Re: [rrg] [IRSG] IRSG Review: draft-irtf-rrg-reco… Tony Li
- [rrg] Revising the Design Goals I-D to be an RFC Robin Whittle
- Re: [rrg] [IRSG] IRSG Review: draft-irtf-rrg-reco… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [rrg] [IRSG] IRSG Review: draft-irtf-rrg-reco… Lixia Zhang
- Re: [rrg] [IRSG] IRSG Review: draft-irtf-rrg-reco… Scott Brim
- [rrg] Lixia & Scott's taxonomy I-D and other taxo… Robin Whittle
- Re: [rrg] Lixia & Scott's taxonomy I-D and other … Lixia Zhang