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- <li><em><li><em>&lt;li&gt;&lt;em&gt;from&lt;/em&gt;</em></em>: Behcet Sarikaya &amp;lt;&lt;A HREF=&quot;mailto:<a href="mailto:behcet.sarikaya%40alcatel.com"><a href="mailto:behcet.sarikaya%40alcatel.com">behcet.sarikaya@alcatel.com</a></a>&quot;&gt;<a href="mailto:behcet.sarikaya%40alcatel.com"><a href="mailto:behcet.sarikaya%40alcatel.com">behcet.sarikaya@alcatel.com</a></a>&lt;/A&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;/LI&gt;</li></li>
- <li><em><li><em>&lt;li&gt;&lt;em&gt;list-id&lt;/em&gt;</em></em>: Context Transfer, Handoff Candidate Discovery, and Dormant Mode Host Alerting &amp;lt;seamoby.ietf.org&amp;gt;&lt;/LI&gt;</li></li>
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- <li><em><li><em>&lt;li&gt;&lt;em&gt;subject&lt;/em&gt;</em></em>: Re: [Seamoby] IP Paging ]Framework discussion&lt;/LI&gt;</li></li>
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- <li><em><li><em>&lt;title&gt;re</em></em>: [Seamoby] IP Paging ]Framework discussion&lt;/title&gt;</li></li> &lt;pre wrap=&quot;&quot;&gt;Guys,&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Let's stop arguing about whose proposal is what and concentrate on&lt;br&gt;getting started doing the protocol, OK?&lt;br&gt;Behcet is entitled to his opinion, Pat and I clearly didn't share it.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt; jak&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;----- Original Message -----&lt;br&gt;From: &quot;Marco Liebsch&quot; &lt;a class=&quot;moz-txt-link-rfc2396E&quot; href=&quot;<a rel="nofollow" href="<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:Marco.Liebsch@ccrle.nec.de&quot"">mailto:Marco.Liebsch@ccrle.nec.de&quot"</a>;><a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:Marco.Liebsch@ccrle.nec.de&quot">mailto:Marco.Liebsch@ccrle.nec.de&quot</a></a>;&gt;&amp;lt;Marco.Liebsch@ccrle.nec.de&amp;gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;To: &quot;Behcet Sarikaya&quot; &lt;a class=&quot;moz-txt-link-rfc2396E&quot; href=&quot;<a rel="nofollow" href="<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:behcet.sarikaya@alcatel.com&quot"">mailto:behcet.sarikaya@alcatel.com&quot"</a>;><a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:behcet.sarikaya@alcatel.com&quot">mailto:behcet.sarikaya@alcatel.com&quot</a></a>;&gt;&amp;lt;behcet.sarikaya@alcatel.com&amp;gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;Cc: &quot;James Kempf&quot; &lt;a class=&quot;moz-txt-link-rfc2396E&quot; href=&quot;<a rel="nofollow" href="<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:kempf@docomolabs-usa.com&quot"">mailto:kempf@docomolabs-usa.com&quot"</a>;><a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:kempf@docomolabs-usa.com&quot">mailto:kempf@docomolabs-usa.com&quot</a></a>;&gt;&amp;lt;kempf@docomolabs-usa.com&amp;gt;&lt;/a&gt;; &quot;Ralf Schmitz&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;a class=&quot;moz-txt-link-rfc2396E&quot; href=&quot;<a rel="nofollow" href="<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:Ralf.Schmitz@ccrle.nec.de&quot"">mailto:Ralf.Schmitz@ccrle.nec.de&quot"</a>;><a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:Ralf.Schmitz@ccrle.nec.de&quot">mailto:Ralf.Schmitz@ccrle.nec.de&quot</a></a>;&gt;&amp;lt;Ralf.Schmitz@ccrle.nec.de&amp;gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 3:42 AM&lt;br&gt;Subject: Re: [Seamoby] IP Paging ]Framework discussion&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/pre&gt; &lt;blockquote type=&quot;cite&quot;&gt; &lt;pre wrap=&quot;&quot;&gt;First: Happy new year.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Furthermore:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Behcet,&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;as we talked in Salt Lake about several paging issues, you told me,&lt;br&gt;&lt;/pre&gt; &lt;/blockquote&gt; &lt;pre wrap=&quot;&quot;&gt;&lt;!----&gt;that&lt;br&gt;&lt;/pre&gt; &lt;blockquote type=&quot;cite&quot;&gt; &lt;pre wrap=&quot;&quot;&gt;you did not read our concept proposal I-D, but you tried to 'convince&lt;br&gt;me' that our proposal is MIP/HA based and specific. This is not true,&lt;br&gt;&lt;/pre&gt; &lt;/blockquote&gt; &lt;pre wrap=&quot;&quot;&gt;&lt;!----&gt;as&lt;br&gt;&lt;/pre&gt; &lt;blockquote type=&quot;cite&quot;&gt; &lt;pre wrap=&quot;&quot;&gt;I tried to explain you in Salt Lake already. The concept is&lt;br&gt;&lt;/pre&gt; &lt;/blockquote&gt; &lt;pre wrap=&quot;&quot;&gt;&lt;!----&gt;independent&lt;br&gt;&lt;/pre&gt; &lt;blockquote type=&quot;cite&quot;&gt; &lt;pre wrap=&quot;&quot;&gt;of the mobility platform, but explains how to integrate the paging&lt;br&gt;concept into a MIPv6 platform 'as an example' and proposes some paging&lt;br&gt;related optimization for MIPv6 as an option. The second draft is not a&lt;br&gt;mess in my opinion, therefore, why should I 'admit' anything like&lt;br&gt;&lt;/pre&gt; &lt;/blockquote&gt; &lt;pre wrap=&quot;&quot;&gt;&lt;!----&gt;this?&lt;br&gt;&lt;/pre&gt; &lt;blockquote type=&quot;cite&quot;&gt; &lt;pre wrap=&quot;&quot;&gt;Therefore, please read the draft thoroughly before giving such a&lt;br&gt;statement. For your info, the first seamoby draft on paging will have&lt;br&gt;the MIPv6 related optimizations proposed in he Annex, as already&lt;br&gt;&lt;/pre&gt; &lt;/blockquote&gt; &lt;pre wrap=&quot;&quot;&gt;&lt;!----&gt;written&lt;br&gt;&lt;/pre&gt; &lt;blockquote type=&quot;cite&quot;&gt; &lt;pre wrap=&quot;&quot;&gt;on the list.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Regards,&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;marco.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Behcet Sarikaya wrote:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/pre&gt; &lt;blockquote type=&quot;cite&quot;&gt; &lt;pre wrap=&quot;&quot;&gt;Hi Jim,&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;James Kempf wrote:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/pre&gt; &lt;blockquote type=&quot;cite&quot;&gt; &lt;blockquote type=&quot;cite&quot;&gt; &lt;pre wrap=&quot;&quot;&gt; You seem to ignore the LAHAP draft always, why? (I think&lt;br&gt;the answer is implicit in your other mail, parts of it I am&lt;br&gt;&lt;/pre&gt; &lt;/blockquote&gt; &lt;/blockquote&gt; &lt;/blockquote&gt; &lt;/blockquote&gt; &lt;pre wrap=&quot;&quot;&gt;&lt;!----&gt;copying&lt;br&gt;&lt;/pre&gt; &lt;blockquote type=&quot;cite&quot;&gt; &lt;blockquote type=&quot;cite&quot;&gt; &lt;blockquote type=&quot;cite&quot;&gt; &lt;pre wrap=&quot;&quot;&gt;here)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;No evil intent, it was strictly a matter of oversight.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/pre&gt; &lt;/blockquote&gt; &lt;pre wrap=&quot;&quot;&gt;Therefore the assessment process is moot, sorry for coming back to&lt;br&gt;this conclusion again. I think that this will be more evident when&lt;br&gt;&lt;/pre&gt; &lt;/blockquote&gt; &lt;/blockquote&gt; &lt;pre wrap=&quot;&quot;&gt;&lt;!----&gt;the&lt;br&gt;&lt;/pre&gt; &lt;blockquote type=&quot;cite&quot;&gt; &lt;blockquote type=&quot;cite&quot;&gt; &lt;pre wrap=&quot;&quot;&gt;meeting slides are ever posted with the mnutes, I had specifically&lt;br&gt;asked during the meeting if there are any slides on LAHAP draft and&lt;br&gt;you said no.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/pre&gt; &lt;blockquote type=&quot;cite&quot;&gt; &lt;pre wrap=&quot;&quot;&gt;One of the uses of IP paging for seamless mobility is the ability&lt;br&gt;to abstract across a variety of different L2 paging protocols.&lt;br&gt;Suppose a device has five wireless interfaces, three of&lt;br&gt;which define L2 paging protocols specific to their&lt;br&gt;particular medium. In this case, confining the L2&lt;br&gt;paging information to the AR would simplify&lt;br&gt;management of paging within the network. L3&lt;br&gt;paging areas could be used to abstract across&lt;br&gt;various L2 paging protocols, in the same way&lt;br&gt;that an IP subnet abstracts across a different&lt;br&gt;L2 link. In this case, I think there is an advantage&lt;br&gt;to having L3 paging areas even if there is&lt;br&gt;already L2 support.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt; jak&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/pre&gt; &lt;/blockquote&gt; &lt;pre wrap=&quot;&quot;&gt;You seem to refer to Yoshi&quot;s mail on orthogonality and also assume&lt;br&gt;that L2 paging areas always exist. Orthogonality or L2 paging area&lt;br&gt;configuration regardless of IP subnet structure can only happen in&lt;br&gt;&lt;/pre&gt; &lt;/blockquote&gt; &lt;/blockquote&gt; &lt;pre wrap=&quot;&quot;&gt;&lt;!----&gt;2G&lt;br&gt;&lt;/pre&gt; &lt;blockquote type=&quot;cite&quot;&gt; &lt;blockquote type=&quot;cite&quot;&gt; &lt;pre wrap=&quot;&quot;&gt;voice-based cellular networks where the mobile is searched with its&lt;br&gt;link address, e.g. IMSI. In 2.5G and 3G cellular networks IP&lt;br&gt;communication is of prime concern. L2 paging areas regardless of IP&lt;br&gt;subnet configuration when the mobile has to be searched with its IP&lt;br&gt;address seems a wrong approach to me, its only justification could&lt;br&gt;&lt;/pre&gt; &lt;/blockquote&gt; &lt;/blockquote&gt; &lt;pre wrap=&quot;&quot;&gt;&lt;!----&gt;be&lt;br&gt;&lt;/pre&gt; &lt;blockquote type=&quot;cite&quot;&gt; &lt;blockquote type=&quot;cite&quot;&gt; &lt;pre wrap=&quot;&quot;&gt;to reuse old paging areas already configured for 2G networks. Also I&lt;br&gt;don't think IP Paging protocol could go into so much to link-related&lt;br&gt;issues.&lt;br&gt; Secondly L2 paging areas exist only on cellular network links and&lt;br&gt;not of a given to any link.In where it exists (GPRS, 3GPP), would&lt;br&gt;they be interested in IETF's IP Paging protocol is a big question&lt;br&gt;mark, IMHO.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt; Regarding renker draft, firstly renker-00 draft was based on MIPv6&lt;br&gt;and it was home agent based paging. Jim mentioned in one of his&lt;br&gt;previous emails the disadvantageous of HA based paging. Now,&lt;br&gt;&lt;/pre&gt; &lt;/blockquote&gt; &lt;/blockquote&gt; &lt;pre wrap=&quot;&quot;&gt;&lt;!----&gt;renker-01&lt;br&gt;&lt;/pre&gt; &lt;blockquote type=&quot;cite&quot;&gt; &lt;blockquote type=&quot;cite&quot;&gt; &lt;pre wrap=&quot;&quot;&gt;draft is a mess as Marco admits, and its architecture is based on&lt;br&gt;lumping everything together, which means, the authors do not know&lt;br&gt;&lt;/pre&gt; &lt;/blockquote&gt; &lt;/blockquote&gt; &lt;pre wrap=&quot;&quot;&gt;&lt;!----&gt;what&lt;br&gt;&lt;/pre&gt; &lt;blockquote type=&quot;cite&quot;&gt; &lt;blockquote type=&quot;cite&quot;&gt; &lt;pre wrap=&quot;&quot;&gt;to do with each architectural entity, so lets combine them. I also&lt;br&gt;agree with Yoshi on the marks given by the assessment team correctly&lt;br&gt;marked it low.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt; Regards,&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;--&lt;br&gt;Behcet&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/pre&gt; &lt;/blockquote&gt; &lt;pre wrap=&quot;&quot;&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/pre&gt; &lt;/blockquote&gt; &lt;pre wrap=&quot;&quot;&gt;&lt;!----&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/pre&gt; &lt;/blockquote&gt; &lt;br&gt; &lt;pre class=&quot;moz-signature&quot; cols=&quot;$mailwrapcol&quot;&gt;-- &lt;br&gt;
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&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;em&gt;From:&lt;/em&gt; &amp;quot;James Kempf&amp;quot; &amp;lt;kempf@docomolabs-usa.com&amp;gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
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&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;em&gt;From:&lt;/em&gt; Behcet Sarikaya &amp;lt;behcet.sarikaya@alcatel.com&amp;gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
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