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RE: [Sip] B2BUA & Max-Forwards
This thread is definitely going way beyond what it should do (both in scope and duration) - it did however start (about a 100 messages ago) with some reasonable modifications to the B2BUA definition, and save those relatively minor modifications, I do not want to see any other modifications in RFC 3261 or its next revision.
I certainly will not agree to removal of any existing definition of B2BUA.
Keith
Keith Drage
Lucent Technologies
Tel: +44 1793 776249
Email: drage@lucent.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mary Barnes [mailto:mbarnes@nortelnetworks.com]
> Sent: 06 December 2002 15:40
> To: 'Jonathan Rosenberg'; Pete Cordell
> Cc: David R. Oran; Dean Willis; sip@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [Sip] B2BUA & Max-Forwards
>
>
>
> I agree with Jonathan. As mentioned earlier this week
> apparently, there is
> already work underway by some individuals to write an
> informational draft
> documenting BBUA scenarios/call flows.
>
> I'll keep my fingers crossed that the existence of such a
> document can save
> us from another round of B2BUA discussions again in 3 months.
>
> Regards,
> Mary.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jonathan Rosenberg [mailto:jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com]
> Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 12:59 AM
> To: Pete Cordell
> Cc: David R. Oran; Dean Willis; sip@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Sip] B2BUA & Max-Forwards
>
>
>
>
> Pete Cordell wrote:
> > Dave,
> >
> > To save your disagreeableness, can we say something like:
> >
> > "A B2BUA MUST perform loop prevention. One way to do this
> is to propagate
> > the Max-Forwards header from the incoming request to the
> outgoing request
> in
> > the same way that a proxy does."
>
> A statement like this is completely out of scope for rfc3261.
> It might
> be a reasonable statement to make in some kind of application
> document
> that describes a particular type of b2bua. However, it makes no more
> sense to say this in RFC 3261 as it would be to discuss the ways in
> which to build a focus or a 3pcc controller (both of which are also
> informational, by the way).
>
> I can't resist pointing out that much of this is deja vu. Folks may
> recall heated discussions in Adelaide, where there was a bof
> (I think)
> that wanted to have a working group to specify SIP to H.323
> conversion.
> THe same arguemtns that were made there are being made here; its an
> application level issue, there are many ways to do it, don't stifle
> creativity, etc. In fact I recall that Dave was, as always, quite
> vociferous on these points.
>
> The eventual conclusion in the h323/sip conversion case was
> to write an
> INFORMATIONAL RFC that documents reasonable practices in
> building such a
> device. I believe the same logic and conclusions apply here. If folks
> have a particular type of b2bua application they are fond of, please
> feel free to write up your implementation advice and I am
> sure sipping
> would consider whether or not it would make a useful
> informational RFC.
>
> However, it is completely inappropriate to ever make such application
> logic normative, and even more inappropraite for such wording
> to be in
> rfc3261.
>
> Anyway, I too am tired of this thread. I think, in fact, there is
> "rough" consensus to remove the definition of b2bua entirely from
> rfc3261 in its next revision (which is quite some time in the future
> anyway). However, I'll let the chairs decide that.
>
> -Jonathan R.
>
> --
> Jonathan D. Rosenberg, Ph.D. 72 Eagle Rock Ave.
> Chief Scientist First Floor
> dynamicsoft East Hanover, NJ 07936
> jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com FAX: (973) 952-5050
> http://www.jdrosen.net PHONE: (973) 952-5000
> http://www.dynamicsoft.com
>
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> This list is for NEW development of the core SIP Protocol
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This list is for NEW development of the core SIP Protocol
Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip
Use sipping@ietf.org for new developments on the application of sip