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Re: [Sip] INFO message belongs only to INVITE dialog usage?


On Jun 7, 2007, at 12:31 PM, Jonathan Rosenberg wrote:

What do you mean by 'information related to the session usage'?

Ugh - that's what the parenthetical below way trying to talk about.
Stuff like digits in INFO (which we say should be done with KPML instead).
Stuff like capturing data out of a protocol on the other side of a gateway an tunneling it to
either an application or to another gateway.
Stuff like data out of the media channel (collected an an IVR perhaps) that needs to be passed
to an application server that's not on the media path.
More stuff than I think it will be worth trying to build clarity around for this conversation.

My point was to _agree_ with what's in sip-info-harmful (you see that Dean also called that out early in the thread)
and to note that we don't have the reasoning that's there stated strongly enough in an easy to stumble across place
and without that, people are going to continue to find new ways to fill the tubes with INFO requests.
(We need _more_ than just what's in your draft - we also need guidance for people who are wanting to do new
things with INFO that points them to what we consider sane alternatives instead.)

RjS


I'll also take this opportunity to remind people of the reasons I think moving forward with more INFO usages is a bad idea:

http://www.jdrosen.net/papers/draft-rosenberg-sip-info-harmful-00.txt

-Jonathan R.

Robert Sparks wrote:

I've been getting a lot of offline questions asking for the "right" way to carry information related to the
session-usage (often information that's being tunneled around from companion or gatewayed protocols).
What we've got sitting around right now is probably not enough if we don't want a new wave of things using INFO. We
need at least an easily findable explanation of why with a pointer to which other tools would be better considered
for different types of applications.
RJS
On Jun 1, 2007, at 3:19 PM, DRAGE, Keith ((Keith)) wrote: 
(As WG chair)

Is anyone out there interested in pursuing this?

If we did something, it would probably be an update to RFC 3427, and I don't see an awful lot of WG resources being consumed if we did, i.e. no impact on our existing workload.

However, if we wrote it, would anybody that matters respect it? Does it solve any current issues?

Regards

Keith

-----Original Message-----
From: Spencer Dawkins [mailto:spencer at mcsr-labs.org]
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 9:01 PM
To: Dean Willis
Cc: DRAGE, Keith (Keith); Jon Peterson; ext Cullen Jennings
Subject: Re: [Sip] INFO message belongs only to INVITE dialog usage?

Hi, Dean,

However, RFC 2976 is considered to be somewhat 

underspecified, and so

far the only place we've further specified its usage is in the
context of transporting binary data for telephony protocol


tunelling.

We have a standing consensus to NOT use it for arbitrary 

data at this

time. If we were to start using it, we'd need to do something like
the event-packages model for INFO. So don't use it, and you


won't  have to deal with this . .

.


This is my understanding also, which makes me wonder why
http://www.jdrosen.net/papers/draft-rosenberg-sip-info- harmful-00.html
didn't advance - I remember the early 00s as a time of
frantic IETF movement, so maybe things have settled down
enough to confirm the consensus?

I am more comfortable if we nail down consensus when we can,
rather than pointing people to Jonathan's expired individual
draft for support.

Other than changing Jonathan's contact information from
Dynamicsoft, were there other updates required? :-)

Thanks,

Spencer





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_______________________________________________
Sip mailing list  https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sip
This list is for NEW development of the core SIP Protocol
Use sip-implementors at cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip
Use sipping at ietf.org for new developments on the application of sip

--
Jonathan D. Rosenberg, Ph.D. 600 Lanidex Plaza
Cisco Fellow Parsippany, NJ 07054-2711
Cisco Systems
jdrosen at cisco.com FAX: (973) 952-5050
http://www.jdrosen.net PHONE: (973) 952-5000
http://www.cisco.com 



_______________________________________________
Sip mailing list  https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sip
This list is for NEW development of the core SIP Protocol
Use sip-implementors at cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip
Use sipping at ietf.org for new developments on the application of sip