[Sip] Re: [RAI] RAI review of draft-ietf-sip-hitchhikers-guide-03

[Jonathan Rosenberg <jdrosen at cisco.com>]

The document includes any normative sip extension once it has been 
adopted as a WG Item. So this does include stuff that is "earlier" in 
the process; for example the sip-saml stuff which (IMHO) is still a 
little on the early side. But once it is a wg item it gets in there. I 
still think its fine to publish hitchhikers as an RFC with those as 
references (to drafts).

-Jonathan R.

Francois Audet wrote:
> Same here. I prefer the whole list.
>
> I checked again the list in the current document, and I didn't see
> anything that was "controversial" (i.e., all the drafts quoted are
> mature working group items).
>
> If some of them were considered immature, we should remove them. But
> otherwise, I'd rather we keep them in. 
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Stucker, Brian (RICH1:AR00) 
> > Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 07:58
> > To: Jonathan Rosenberg; Audet, Francois (SC100:3055)
> > Cc: sip at ietf.org; Avshalom Houri; rai at ietf.org
> > Subject: RE: [RAI] RAI review of draft-ietf-sip-hitchhikers-guide-03
> >
> > I would also prefer that I-D references be left in the 
> > document. It's very helpful to the community to not only know 
> > where SIP is at when you read the guide, but to know where 
> > it's headed. If for no other reason than it prevents someone 
> > from thinking they've discovered a novel problem and go off 
> > implementing a solution parallel to what will soon 
> > (hopefully) be an RFC. Likewise, if they find that the I-D is 
> > incomplete, it gives them a reference to make comments 
> > against that they may not have otherwise discovered.
> >
> > It's an informative document. What if we just copy paragraphs 
> > two and three of from the boilerplate "status of this memo" 
> > into the introduction as a warning to those who read the 
> > document later as an RFC that I-D's referenced by the guide 
> > can change. 
> >
> > Is there any harm in doing this?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Brian 
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Jonathan Rosenberg [mailto:jdrosen at cisco.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 9:36 AM
> > > To: Audet, Francois (SC100:3055)
> > > Cc: sip at ietf.org; Avshalom Houri; rai at ietf.org
> > > Subject: Re: [RAI] RAI review of draft-ietf-sip-hitchhikers-guide-03
> > >
> > > inline:
> > >
> > > Francois Audet wrote:
> > > > What about SIPS, which is already in hitchiker's guide, and
> > > which is
> > > > waiting on outbound because of a normative reference?
> > > >
> > > >     
> > > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > > ----------
> > > >     *From:* DRAGE, Keith (Keith) [mailto:drage at alcatel-lucent.com]
> > > >     *Sent:* Tuesday, October 30, 2007 01:01
> > > >     *To:* Avshalom Houri; rai at ietf.org; sip at ietf.org;
> > > jdrosen at cisco.com
> > > >     *Subject:* RE: [RAI] RAI review of
> > > > draft-ietf-sip-hitchhikers-guide-03
> > > >
> > > >     (As WG chair)
> > > >      
> > > >     Just a note that I should have included with the WGLC.
> > > >      
> > > >     The intention with this document is to republish on a 
> > recurring
> > > >     basis, and therefore to keep it up to date (say once a
> > > year or so).
> > > >      
> > > >     The 1st versions is intended to include gruu, outbound
> > > and ice, but
> > > >     apart from that, anything that is not published in that
> > > timeframe
> > > >     will probably be removed unless there is exceptional
> > > justification
> > > >     for keeping it, with the idea that it will appear in
> > > the next version.
> > >
> > > This is news to me...
> > >
> > > What I thought would happen is that we have references to 
> > everything 
> > > in the guide, and when the guide appears as an RFC, whatever 
> > > references are at RFC status at that time, get RFC numbers. 
> > Everything 
> > > else is referenced as an I-D.
> > >
> > > I think you are suggesting that, instead, when we send this 
> > to IESG, 
> > > we remove any content and references associated with 
> > documents which 
> > > are not on track to publication around the same timeframe as 
> > > hitchhikers guide itself. Indeed it will require us to change those 
> > > references to normative in order to get rfc-editor to do a 
> > REF hold on 
> > > hitchhikers till its dependencies clear.
> > >
> > > If my interpretation is correct, my next question is whether this 
> > > applies to just the core specs or all of the specs.
> > >
> > > I personally would rather leave the document as is - include 
> > > everything, and recognize that some references will be 
> > drafts rather 
> > > than RFCs when hitchhikers is published. Next round of hitchhikers 
> > > will have more of them as RFCs.
> > >
> > > -Jonathan R.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jonathan D. Rosenberg, Ph.D.                   600 Lanidex Plaza
> > > Cisco Fellow                                   Parsippany, NJ 
> > > 07054-2711
> > > Cisco Systems
> > > jdrosen at cisco.com                              FAX:   (973) 952-5050
> > > http://www.jdrosen.net                         PHONE: (973) 952-5000
> > > http://www.cisco.com
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > RAI mailing list
> > > RAI at ietf.org
> > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rai

--
Jonathan D. Rosenberg, Ph.D.                   600 Lanidex Plaza
Cisco Fellow                                   Parsippany, NJ 07054-2711
Cisco Systems
jdrosen at cisco.com                              FAX:   (973) 952-5050
http://www.jdrosen.net                         PHONE: (973) 952-5000
http://www.cisco.com


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