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Re: [Sip] Comparison of retargeting proposals



Well, this just proves that it ain't that clear. Looks like Dean's 
definition of "re-routing" is broader than Hadriel's since it includes
strict routing in "the middle" not just "the end". Whatever we do, we should
get clear terms for "re-routing".

Jonathan's draft had the merit to make all this clearer.

Anyways, thanks Hadriel for confirming my understanding of your diagram.

I still don't see the difference between P-Called-ID and Target, i.e.,
"what are the cases where C != E", unless there is 2543-style strict routing.
And if there is, then I fail to see how P-Called-ID would be used: seems to 
me if P-Called-ID points to C instead of E, it is broken and should be fixed.

Of course maybe it's my non-existent knowledge of IMS. My question to Christer
would be "Is P-Called-ID as defined today, pointing to C, broken???".



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dean Willis [mailto:dean.willis at softarmor.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 18:46
> To: Hadriel Kaplan
> Cc: Audet, Francois (SC100:3055); Christer Holmberg; Hans 
> Erik van Elburg; Juha Heinanen; sip at ietf.org; DOLLY, MARTIN C, ATTLABS
> Subject: Re: [Sip] Comparison of retargeting proposals
> 
> 
> On Apr 2, 2008, at 6:05 PM, Hadriel Kaplan wrote:
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Francois Audet [mailto:audet at nortel.com]
> >>
> >> Re-Targeting (RTRG) is when a Proxy changes a Request-URI to a 
> >> different one, outside of normal routing.  That's ok. For example, 
> >> bob at example.com to alice at example.com.
> >> What is the difference between RRT (Re-Routing) and Routing 
> >> (Routing)? I don't get it.
> >
> > I believe, based on the email discussion back in January, that "Re- 
> > Targeting" is when a Proxy re-targets the request to a new 
> entity, so 
> > yes for example from bob to charlie.  In that situation, I believe 
> > what both Jonathan and Christer want is the "target- info" 
> (the stuff 
> > we're trying to preserve) to be replaced by the new set (charlie's 
> > set).
> >
> > Re-Routing is when the proxy/registrar replaces the req-uri due to
> > AoR->contact resolution.  In that case we want to preserve the pre-
> > resolved target info.
> >
> 
> The difference between retargeting and rerouting is that 
> rerouting preserves the expected response identity, and 
> retargeting doesn't.
> 
> Assume connected-identity. In a "direct" call, one where no 
> proxy routing is done, we'd expect to see that the identity 
> sent by the target corresponds to the identity given for the 
> target in the request URI.
> 
> That is, if Alice has invited Bob, she's expecting the 
> connected- identity to be sourced from Bob.
> 
> This is preserved by typical "proxy contact routing",  to 
> which I applied the term "rerouting". The request URI gets 
> changed by the proxy, but the targeted identity doesn't.
> 
> So if Alice sends an INVITE for Bob's AOR to Bob's proxy, and 
> Bob's proxy reroutes the INVITE to Bob's UA using a 
> registered Contact, Bob still gets the call, and a 
> connected-identity expressed by his UA will still be for "Bob".
> 
> However, if Bob's proxy retargeted the request to 
> SpanishInquisition, the connected identity would no longer 
> match with the request. I call this the "unanticipated 
> respondent problem". After all, nobody expects the Spanish 
> Inquisition to answer Bob's calls.
> 
> This could be a real problem is we were using security 
> functions, since Alice might 1) not have keys for use with 
> the Spanish Inquisition, and 2) Alice might reasonably wonder 
> why they answered Bob's call.
> 
> Had we instead used a 302 to redirect Alice to the Spanish 
> Inquisition, she'd at least be forewarned.
> 
> So, routing and rerouting operations imply that the response 
> identity is equivalent to the pre-operation target identity. 
> Retargeting implies that the response identity is not 
> equivalent to the pre- operation target identity.
> 
> 
> > Routing is when a proxy routes.  I believe the intention 
> was that this 
> > mean the proxy does not touch the req-uri, but my guess is 
> that's not 
> > agreed is reality. (more on that later)
> 
> In RFC 2543, routing always required changing the ReqURI.  
> RFC 3261 loose-routing changed this, and proxies only change 
> the Request URI when changing the target. RFC 3261 does not 
> distinguish between target changes that change the identity 
> of the target and those that do not, hence the new terms 
> "rerouting" and "retargeting".
> 
> much text deleted . . .
> 
> >
> > My personal experience is proxies replace req-uri during routing a 
> > LOT, even when they're not resolving AoR->contact nor "re- 
> targeting".  
> > And what they're changing the req-uri to does not usually 
> affect the 
> > identity of the called party, because the username portion is not 
> > being changed, and it's an e.164.  So PCPID "works".  But for this 
> > target-info use-case you want parameters from the original req-uri, 
> > and those may not be there by the time it gets to R2 and a PCPID is 
> > created.  So that's my guess of why C != E. But it's just a guess.
> 
> I'd call that operation rerouting, not routing. It is the 
> functional equivalent of replacing the request-URI with a 
> Contact -- it's just that the new request-URI is determined 
> by some means other than registration against the AOR. This 
> might be, for example, via static provisioning, or by 
> matching against a TRIP routing table. The fact that the 
> userparts encode phone numbers is essentially irrelevant to 
> the question of what type of operation (routing, rerouting,
> retargeting) is used, although it might be very important to 
> how the proxy might decide which operation to use and which 
> destination to encode.
> 
> --
> Dean
> 
> 
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